Neil Hancock: 00:00:12
Hello, everyone.  I'm Neil on Wheels and this is my new podcast.  I can’t walk the walk but I can talk the talk.  I'm a wheelchair actor who wasn’t able to work during the pandemic but rather than sitting around doing nothing, I thought I’d sit around doing something.  In this series, I’ll be chatting to people in the theatre, TV and film industry about the challenges they’ve overcome in order to achieve great things in life.  Welcome back to part two of my podcast episode where I'm chatting to actor, Trevor Eve.  And so, then some years later, you went on to play Dexter in High Society opposite Natasha Richardson and Stephen Rea.  I'm just interested, singing is not something that I automatically know you for, Trevor but I've heard you sing True Love with Natasha Richardson. 

Trevor Eve: 00:01:01
(Laughter)

Neil Hancock: 00:01:02
You're absolutely fantastic.  How did the demands of doing a musical differ from doing plays that you had done before?

Trevor Eve: 00:01:12
Oh, God, Neil.  It was tough. (Laughter) It was tough.  I – oh, boy.  I didn’t want to do this job because I didn’t think it was my strength you know to say the least.  I knew Richard Eyre and had tremendous respect for him.  He’s a brilliant director.  And I auditioned you know.  I went in and did my singing with the wonderful musical director, George Fenton who coincidently composed the Shoestring theme... theme tune which is kind of amazing.  Anyway, they proved, they insisted that I could sing. (Laughter) So, I kind of you know, I'm an actor so the flattery got to me. (Laughter) I didn’t even think of a goddamn... I didn’t even think of the goddamn dancing.  I just said, so they said, “You can sing.  And look at this great cast.  Aren’t we fab?” And I wanted to work with you know Natasha.  God bless her.  Wonderful woman and Stephen Rea, wonderful actor.  So, yeah, I said yes and off we go.  I had eight solo numbers, a solo tap dance routine. (Laughter) I think I felt every night like I should return some of the money to the people (Laughter) who came to see it.  Because it got great reviews but it wasn’t my you know...  I always felt that I was not showing myself off to my best ability but it was fun.  And then about 9, 10 months, no, maybe even towards the very end, maybe just a month ago, I stood up to do my song which is “Little one, dah, dah, dah, dah,” to the little girl.  And I opened my mouth and I went, “Little one.” (Laughter) And my voice had completely gone.  So, [Impression of himself losing his voice.] I couldn’t get it.  It wouldn’t, nothing would return.  My speaking voice was there.  So, I had to turn to the audience to say, “Ladies and gentlemen, I'm terribly sorry but I appear to have lost my voice.” And (Laughter) I carried on sort of through the play and finished and then the doctor was in the wings and he looked and my vocal cords, apparently had just gone completely loose and wobbly and hopeless.  So, I then had to take time out, about 10 days out and not speak for 10 days.  And then I went back and finished the run which wasn’t too long.  But yeah, so that was... it had its problems for me, High Society.  It certainly did.  I loved working with the people... I loved... everyone said to me, “Oh, I know, everyone gets nervous but wait until the orchestra start up with the overture.  You’ll love it at the beginning.  And just everyone, you just get a boost and I can remember standing in the wings with Stephen Rea.  He looked at me and said, “Oh, fucking hell, Trevor.  What are we in for?” You know and (Laughter) so we weren’t boosted by the overture.  We just thought, “Shit.” But it was, yeah.  It is my one and only musical (Laughter) for a reason.

Neil Hancock: 00:04:54
Well, now, I’ll gladly move on from this.  And (Laughter) because I love Shakespeare and in 1991, you played Leontes in The Winter’s Tale at the Young Vic.  The Winter’s Tale is one of my favourite plays.  What was it like playing a character like Leontes?  Because he’s probably the sort of role that every actor at one point, wants to play. 

Trevor Eve: 00:05:25
Well, I would only have done that... it was a wonderful director called David Thacker who I'd... was... I'd just done a film version of A Doll’s House with Juliet Stevenson that – I think that’s right, wasn’t it?  1991, yeah, that David had directed.  And it was during the rehearsal of  A Doll’s House that he said, “How do you fancy doing Leontes?”  And I loved working with David.  I think I mean, he’s – I've worked with him since.  I think he's a fabulous director.  I said, “Yeah, great, great, great.”  And I had an absolute blast.  I loved; I loved it.  I loved doing it.  And interesting you know switch in that character.  I mean if you investigate it in sort of psychological terms, it goes from ba, dah, dah, dah to "Too hot, too hot to mingle friendship far as mingling bloods I have tremor cordis" .  He’s off on now you know.  He's gone into this sort of paroxysm of jealousy within a split second just turns.  So, it’s fascinating.  I loved it.  I really, really loved it, yeah.  

Neil Hancock: 00:06:44
Yes, 'coz he….

Trevor Eve: 00:06:45
It’s all I can say about that one.  

Neil Hancock: 00:06:48
He’s overcome by this wave of jealousy and then it’s sort of a play of two halves, isn’t it?  You’ve got the sort of almost jealous Leontes and then you’ve got the Leontes in the second half who basically wants to seek forgiveness from his daughter.

Trevor Eve: 00:07:07
Yeah, yeah.  No, no, absolutely.  And his daughter was played by a fabulous actress called Rudi Davies who is Beryl Bainbridge’s daughter who I've done a show called Sense of Guilt with a couple of years previously.  And that was Andrea Newman, I think.  And then she came to do that.  And she’s wonderful.  She retired.  She’s retired now but yeah, that was a great show.  I loved it.  I loved doing that.

Neil Hancock: 00:07:49
And you mentioned about doing A Doll’s House.  Now, I'm a huge Ibsen fan.

Trevor Eve: 00:07:55
Me too, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:07:56
And you mentioned earlier about the thing that got you into acting was watching Hedda Gabler.  What is it about Ibsen that you think you find captivating, that you think works?

Trevor Eve: 00:08:10
The agony, I suppose.  I think that Ibsen, I prefer Chekov really.  He’s the one for me.  But the pain... the existential pain of, and struggle of these playwrights, I mean I just, I just, I don’t know.  I can’t really explain it.  It’s – and there’s, I mean the Doll’s House is a brutally cruel play.  And a woman in a tragic position who then is asked to make the you know the ultimate sacrifice at the end.  I mean it’s really...they're are playwrights who just confront in what appears to be not extremely dramatic terms in terms of Shakespeare’s kind of concept of drama.  These are much more low-key and smouldering.  But the agonies and the ecstasies are there in the same way.  They just, I don’t know.  They just, it’s like just gently seeping into your skin and your blood and you're living through the whole thing.  I think they're wonderful playwrights.    

Neil Hancock: 00:09:30
We talked about A Doll’s House.  In a way, A Doll’s House is sort of very, very, it has echoes or similarities between, you know, The Politician’s Wife which also you did with Juliet Stevenson.  What were your first impressions when you read the Paula Milne’s script for The Politician’s Wife?

Trevor Eve: 00:09:50
That was a world that I didn’t really grasp in terms of I don’t suppose I’d really taken on board the world of the corrupt, potentially corrupt politician.  So, again, what I've always enjoyed about work is investigation you know...is investigating and researching these, the elements in the world of the script.  So, you know there again, I'm fortunate, aren’t I, I'm working with wonderful writer, wonderful actress you know.  These things count for a lot when you're, you know, in your career, I think you got to do, you got to be fortunate enough to work with these people who are just really, really good at what they do.  And that’s just a luxury and it’s phenomenal.

Neil Hancock: 00:10:53
And I've seen the show.  Even now, all these years on, it still has a relevance to it, doesn’t it in terms of the issues that are arising.  And I just thought it was a really, really good show.

Trevor Eve: 00:11:10
Yeah, it was a hugely good show.  I think, didn’t it win a BAFTA, I can’t remember.  I think it won, but it was one of Channel 4’s first dramas.  And yeah, it had a lot of integrity and it was a really, it was a great piece.  It was a sort of heavyweight piece.  It was great to work on.  I remember enjoying it enormously.

Neil Hancock: 00:11:33
And I'm going to go back to your stage career a little bit.  You won your second Olivier in 1996 when you played, Doctor Astrov in Uncle Vanya.  How did the challenges in that play compare to the ones you had in Children of a Lesser God?

Trevor Eve: 00:11:50
Well, I – in a way, I think I kind of, I love Chekhov.  In a way, I kind of ease into Chekhov.   It seems to fit a lot of me as an actor, the Chekhov thing. It was, again you know I had... Derek Jacobi was Uncle Vanya you know it was Alec McCowan, I mean it was a list of you know of really, really great actors.  And I remember the rehearsal period was fabulous and it sort of unfolded in a very conversational way and a very low-key investigative way into these characters and that we sort of just conversed with each other through the, there was no, Bill Bryden was the director.  There was no attempt to deliver performances as such.  It was a very sort of immersive process.  And out of that came the play.  So, we all felt tremendously kind of rooted in it.  And I loved it. I just thought it was great.  It’s very interesting that I won an Olivier for that.  And then went into do quite a lot of TV.  But it’s worth noting that when you win awards, you don’t necessarily get inundated with lots of offers in the theatre. (Laughter) I don’t think that….

Neil Hancock: 00:13:28
Really?

Trevor Eve: 00:13:29
Yeah.  I don’t think anyone offered me anything in the theatre (Laughter) after that.  I think it’s kind of interesting.  I find that why you get offered stuff, where it comes from and how you get it in an actor’s life is really extraordinary.  I mean up until Uncle Vanya had been, I was at the National, the most impossible play I ever did, I just got to talk about this was in terms of its presentation to audience was Inadmissible Evidence which is a three and a half hour... I don’t want to dismiss the other actors in the piece but the only character that talks is Bill Maitland, the lead character in Inadmissible Evidence.  It opens with a 45-minute monologue before the play starts and the second half opens with a 45-minute one-sided telephone call.  I mean it’s got just about everything in it that is really, really hard. (Laughter) And I did that at the National.  It had only been done once before.  And that’s a play I wish I hadn’t taken on.  But I won’t go into the reasons why.  But that was tough.  But then I worked... one play, I did really enjoy was Man, Beast and Virtue, Pirandello’s Man, Beast and Virtue which I did at the National which is a farce, you know, it’s a farce.  Oh, God, I loved that.  That was just a blast.

Neil Hancock: 00:15:08
Directed by William Gaskell, wasn’t it as well?

Trevor Eve: 00:15:10
The Great, William Gaskell.  God bless him.  A man that was, who’s working methods were much criticised in the latter part of his, half of his career as being too brutal.  I always remember being in the National stage door during rehearsals and Steven Rea came up to me and I won’t do his accent and said, “Oh, how is it going, Trevor?” I said, “It’s going fine.  It’s going…” He said, “What do you mean?  I heard that some actor had to bring a chair on the stage 62 times.  And all he did was bring it on and then Bill Gaskell said, ‘No, again.’”  And I said, “Yeah, yeah.  That was me.” (Laughter) He made me bring a chair on, place it on the stage 62 times, one after the other because I wasn’t doing it right.  Now, I'm pretty stubborn so that’s why I stuck in doing it 62 times because eventually... I just got fascinated as to when was I going to get it right and how different was it going to be.  And then on the 63rd time, he said, fine.  But a lot of people didn’t take to that.  I was then going to do Man of Mode with the National with Bill before he left.  He was at Rada when you were there, wasn’t he, I think.  

Neil Hancock: 00:16:41
I briefly saw him.  I never got to speak to him, Trevor to be honest but….

Trevor Eve: 00:16:45
Yeah.  One of the most brilliant directors I've worked with.  I mean completely brutal.  I mean he would just, he would send you home for a fortnight if he didn’t think you were doing it right or... go away. You hand your equity card in at the door because you have no right to hold a union card in this profession.  And don’t come back for two weeks.  I remember a guy, it wasn’t me that he said that to but the person said, “Well, hang on.  We open in three.” I said, “Yeah. Well, what difference is it going to make you being here for those two?” (Laughter) It’s just, it’s like and yeah, I guess, I guess he was brutal but he knew a hell of a lot about theatre and about the process.  He just had no patience.  Anyway….

Neil Hancock: 00:17:39
How has your stage work helped you with the roles you’ve played on TV?  I always think having a good theatrical background helps you when it comes to the demands of being on TV where you have to do everything you know very, very quickly.     

Trevor Eve: 00:17:58
Well, you have to get to the process of doing it very quickly then you got takes on your side.  You can do, you know, you have more than one go at it. But I do think now more than ever I would say it’s changed... it’s developed into a turn up, you know, cast, get on the set, okay, line run and everyone does the lines and the scene, okay.  So, I’d like you to stand there and you sit there and do that and that.  And then okay, let’s bring in the crew and show them what we’ve got.  And you think, okay.  I mean I've up working that way now for about eight, nine years since I decided to tow the party line. (Laughter) And I, so the investigation, the rehearsal, the getting into the... that seems to have gone.  And there's the assumption that the actor now is cast perfectly for the role therefore should have no difficulty doing it and it should be sort of, you know, question of him or her just sort of standing there and doing it.  Now, it could be... I could be wrong but we weren’t... we didn’t used to be like so I don’t know.  I don’t know.  Maybe budget restrictions, time, I don’t know what’s changed but there is very much that sense now.  And indeed, you do have to get on with it.  I mean you can’t hang around.  It costs thousands of pounds to film for a day. I do get it.  Yeah, probably, yeah and I do, do it you know.  It’s what I do.  It’s what I do now.  I turn up.  I obviously know the lines.  I do it.  And fine, whether the scene is the best the scene could be, I don’t know.  Is that the important factor?  Probably not.  So, it’s just a different method that we’re into now.

Neil Hancock: 00:20:10
And then you played Detective Superintendent Peter Boyd in Waking the Dead which you played for 11 years, I believe.

Trevor Eve: 00:20:20
Well, nine, I think it was nine series not over ten years I think was how it went or maybe over eleven, more than eleven, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:20:28
Oh, right.  Having only played Shoestring for a short time, why did you stay with the show for so long?

Trevor Eve: 00:20:36
I was educating three children. (Laughter)

Neil Hancock: 00:20:43
Right, I understand.

Trevor Eve: 00:20:45
I – oh, I, this was a difficult show.  This was back at the BBC, where I had been many times between Shoestring and then but this was running a series.  And it was difficult.  It was difficult because the scripts were very often poor and therefore, I didn’t want to you know, when the script... if you're the lead in a series or you're in a series and you're doing it day in and day out and it hangs on you or you and four or five other actors but it’s you every day, you are the only person really invested particularly at the BBC when it’s an in-house production really of being the one that wants the standards to be high.  Because the BBC, if the show doesn’t work, it’s cancelled.  They’ve got so many other shows that can put in its place.  They're not like... there isn’t you know a massive personal financial investment.  It’s not like a production company is there and the people stand to become multimillionaires off the back of it.  There's a different, a whole different vibe.  And so, a lot of the time... and I'm not running the BBC down just across the board.  It’s a wonderful place.  But there are elements in it where running a series... the most kind of attention to detail is not always there.  And so, there was conflict over the scripts.  And that’s the only thing I would, I ever would conflict about, would ever get into conflict about, is quality of scripts.  Because you're the one day in, day out having to say these lines and to construct this narrative and if it’s not just a narrative that works, has holes in it, the lines are shit, whatever, I would put my hand up and say, “I don’t think we should do it like this.” And you know that’s, that’s (Laughter) that’s interesting when you do that. (Laughter) I’ll leave it at that.  

Neil Hancock: 00:23:10
But did you have any input into your character over the years that you were doing it?  

Trevor Eve: 00:23:15
Hundred percent.  Because that they want you to do because then it makes you know if you give a character to the writer, the writers that come in, then it’s easier for them to operate.  So, yes, yeah, you do, yeah.  You do have input.  It’s just really a kind of a standard sort of thing you know.  People sort of levels of acceptable, what people consider good and not good that that judgement varies.  

Neil Hancock: 00:23:56
You’ve had, you’ve played fictional roles and roles that are based on real-life characters such as Hughie Green for example.  

Trevor Eve: 00:24:06
Oh, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:24:05
How do you go about preparing characters that you play?  And does that preparation differ depending on a particular character?  

Trevor Eve: 00:24:14
Well, with Hughie Green, I mean I was in two minds.  I've never been very clear about playing real people because, particularly, if there’s archive footage of them because you're in that area of just sort of impersonation but you also have to inhabit and make it a fully three-dimensional character so it’s a strange one.  And also, there were people who are affected by you portraying someone like Hughie Green.  There are people who are alive whose lives were intertwined with his and everything.  And indeed, Bob Geldof was, because of his relationship with Hughie Green’s daughter, Paula Yates was very vocal in his condemnation of the people making Hughie Green.  And I have to say I felt really bad about that.  I didn’t... when I'd done it and I read that he said that.  I thought he’s got a point.  And...yeah, he had a point.  And so, I enjoyed the process of absorbing a character. You know I enjoy that.  That’s I think what you are as an actor, you know, you're there to soak up all the stuff.  So, I would watch endless footage of the man and endless footage of the man for a very long period of time until you can do a pretty decent representation of him and then try and find out what makes him tick. And he was a particularly complicated man.  Yeah.  So, I have you know, I understand... completely get it.  And maybe had I spoken to Bob Geldof before about his opinions, I probably wouldn’t have done it.  Yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:26:12
And has your approach to acting changed over the years or have you, do you use the same approach that you always used?

Trevor Eve: 00:26:22
Well, I think, I think what we’ve discussed so far, you can see that a sort of super investigative almost forensic approach to character and script is quite time consuming and maybe exhausting for people.  Because I think I have, I think I become obsessive.  I think that that would be a pretty reasonable criticism to lay at my door.  I become obsessive and become obsessed and determined to get things right at whatever cost I think was my past.  And I think that’s something I've had to learn that it’s just not appreciated.  It’s this conflict, Neil.  It’s this thing about the results and how you get them.  And if you exhaust too many, if it’s too exhausting a process along the way, then I don’t think people appreciate the results.  The audience might appreciate the results but I'm not sure that the people involved in the production and the process with you appreciate it.   And I think that’s something I would lay at my door not in everything I've ever done but in some things that I have done.  I've been too obsessed with carrying out what I really truly believe is the right way or the way that it should be or whatever.  And maybe it wasn’t.  So, that is a sort of psychological thought.  But then I was in therapy for 20 years so I've been working on it, you know. (Laughter) It’s not like I arrogantly floated through life going, yes, this is the way.  I am (Laughter) I've realised my flaws. They’ve been pointed out to me often enough.  And so, I've investigated that, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:28:27
So, now, I want to move away from acting a little bit.  You then became a producer.  In 1995, you co-founded your production company Projector Productions.

Trevor Eve: 00:28:38
Projector Pictures. 

Neil Hancock: 00:28:39
Oh, Projector Pictures, sorry.  What prompted you to do the…?

Trevor Eve: 00:28:42
It was Productions, you’re absolutely right.  It was Productions and then we changed to Pictures.  What prompted me?

Neil Hancock: 00:28:48
What prompted you to go to the world of production?

Trevor Eve: 00:28:50
Is that what you're asking me?

Neil Hancock: 00:28:51
Yeah.  

Trevor Eve: 00:28:53
Well, a very clear event.  In 1995, August the 12th, I fell off a horse.

Neil Hancock: 00:29:06
Oh, my word.  

Trevor Eve: 00:29:08
And fractured my spine.  It was entirely my own fault.  In a sort of misplaced period of my life, I decided that I wanted to take up polo.  And I got a farm and had horses and indeed did play polo and thoroughly enjoyed it until August the 12th 1995 when in an accident, I landed badly unconsciously and I had fractured my spine.  So, I was taken to hospital.  Fortunately, there was an ambulance there... taken to hospital.  And was questionable as to whether I would walk again.  So, during the six months that I wasn’t sure, I thought, “God, what am I going to do?  What am I going to do?” So, I thought well, I know, you know, quite a lot about this industry and I've always, I've always created stories, well, I wrote a novel but I've always created stories and developed scripts and so, I thought, well, I could start a production company.  So, that’s what I did.  And it came directly out of having had an accident that I didn’t know what my recovery prognosis was going to be basically.  

Neil Hancock: 00:30:44
Well, I'm glad you did start producing because one of my favourite shows that you are in is Kidnap and Ransom.  That is probably the best show, one of my favourite shows.  And of course, I couldn’t work out why I liked it so much.  And then I realised, it was created by Patrick Harbinson who did all the other shows that I also like as well.  How did you become involved with that?  And how did the process of creating that show come about?  

Trevor Eve: 00:31:17
Well, it came about by us brainstorming the people that I work with and not Patrick Harbinson, I hastened to add he came in having... we got the idea and we presented to him and he wrote it. But we developed the idea of a hostage negotiator.  And it had I think a... I don’t want to sound like I blame people in life but it had (Laughter) it had, it did two, three-hour series.  We did two stories, three hours each.  And it did very well.  But there was a certain gentleman at ITV.  It was the head of the drama at the time who didn’t like it.  And these people you meet in your life, you know.  They're the ones... they're not the good fortune ones.  They're the bad fortune ones, you know.  And you take it with, you know.  And so, he didn’t like it so he didn’t want to make anymore.  And which was a shame because it was a really good show.  And it had a lot of, you know, we had a lot of stories lined up.  He didn’t like it because why couldn’t we do one in the United Kingdom.  And I said, “Well, because hostage and negotiation and ransom, we don’t acknowledge.  There are no negotiations done on UK soil.” You have to, they're all done abroad and then of course, it was very soon after that but everybody started filming abroad.  But I'd been told that we had to film in the United Kingdom because ITV audiences didn’t like to see anything that wasn’t in the United Kingdom.  So, you come up against that wisdom every now and then in life, Neil.  And you just go, “Oh, okay, thank you very much for that.” And you don’t send them a Christmas card, I suppose. (Laughter)  

Neil Hancock: 00:33:18
And from producing, I want to then go on to writing because you have written a book which was published in 2019 as I said at the start, Lomita for Ever which I have to say I've not read a book quite like that.  It was quite captivating to read.  And what I wanted to ask, why was it important for you to tell the story at this particular time?

Trevor Eve: 00:33:46
Well, are you referring to the character of Ever...Everett, in terms of his mental condition and the episodes of…?

Neil Hancock: 00:33:58
I'm referring to the story as a whole, I mean not just one particular character but the story as a whole.

Trevor Eve: 00:34:02
Right.  Well, it’s interesting that Neil because I... how this book came about was that I've always written, you know, journals and bits and pieces and without any attempt at structuring a narrative for a novel or anything like that.  I went out to Mexico to see a friend for a very short stay intended who wasn’t well.  And I got there and I don’t know but I looked through and I saw something I’d written about leaving Palm Springs to return by car to Los Angeles.  And I was sitting there and it’s a beautiful house by the ocean.  And anyway, three months later, I was still there.  And I’d constructed this story.  And if you ask me where the story came from and the character of Lomita, I do not know.  I really do not know.  And I don’t want to sort of put some, you know, magical intervention that came upon me to create this.  But I just started writing and I had the germ of an idea about a man’s creativity in his life being curtailed or not being allowed an outlet and what that entailed.  I did it through Ever and his... the sort of the young lead hero or anti-hero and...as to what had happened to his father.  And I found that really prompted me into a sort of, it immersed me into some of the aspects that had happened in my life in terms of mental struggles.  I really hastened to add.  I've lost more friends through this book than I've made because I didn’t do all the things that it says in the book, okay. (Laughter) But people go, “What do you mean?  You didn’t do.” So, the mental aspect of this so I got involved with the story of this man, this young man having witnessed the demise, involuntary demise really of his father, his father who had been forced into a sort of state of inertia and inability to do what he did.  And it took me back, well it didn’t take me back because I lived with it all the time.  I suppose to my mental struggles which I haven't really talked about.  I mean I've mentioned them occasionally in interviews but I haven’t really discussed.  But in 1994, coincidentally, one year before I broke my back, it should really be the other way around you would think but I had a breakdown in 1994.  And it kind of came out of the blue that I mean I had a pretty loaded life, a pretty stressed life.  I'd taken a lot on.  And one day, I can only describe it as having hit a brick wall and just falling down to the bottom of the wall and not being able to move.  Everything just became black.  And there was a heavy blanket over me and I couldn’t function.  And it was a real shock.  I didn’t know, I didn’t know what had happened.  Now, I'm fortunate to have the most wonderful wife who took me to see somebody who immediately got me into a place.  And I then through the next few weeks realised that I had a breakdown.  But what it really threatened was my ability to function coherently day to day.  And indeed, my confidence at functioning day to day.  So, I suppose, in my later therapy, I, because what happened is I then, I kind of recovered but I don’t think I did recover.  Then I broke my back.  Then I had six months of that problem, physical problem.  And then I kind of, it recurred again this, what I now came to realise was some form of absolute anxiety as oppose to... I suppose in a combination of a mental breakdown in terms of massive depression.  And so, that reoccurred and indeed, I then had to deal with that through the next 12 years of my life.  And I found that very difficult, you know.  And it was only coming out of Waking the Dead and 2012 where I kind of re-evaluated and worked my way through it.  But I think I had a very... and, you know, I'm not saying now is golden.  I don’t think you get through those things. I think when they – so some of the experiences of Ever in the book, some of the descriptions of of of... I mean someone said to me, I didn’t understand what depression was until I read that book.  And I think not, you know, I've expanded on it and dramatized it but some of the essential essence of what it’s like to sit on a chair and not feel capable of moving or doing anything because you're mentally just shut down, those are in the book I think, that experience of the world just becoming an impossible place to negotiate. 

Neil Hancock: 00:41:08
And in terms of Ever as well, it’s a matter of... when I was reading the book, I was thinking, is it his perception that his father has been wronged or is it a case of the fact that his father was actually wronged, you know.

Trevor Eve: 00:41:26
No, I think that’s absolutely it.  And it’s coupled of course with his tremendous guilt as to what he had done to his mother and against his father.  We won’t go into that one.  Because that’s, that I just thought I’ll put that, that’s pretty sensationalistic.  I’ll put that bit in and of course that’s the one where the Daily Mail said this will appal readers and, you know. (Laughter) So, so (Laughter) But that, alongside that created this sort of, this guilt in Ever that, you know, he couldn’t eradicate in any shape or form.  And yes, I agree.  Did that, was that guilt?  Did that sort of justify the perception that he had of his father to compensate or did his father really get stifled.  I agree.  I think that’s very perceptive of you.  I think that’s absolutely the essence of that is it in his own mind that his father... what happened to his father or not.  Yeah, I think that’s very astute, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:42:34
And how easy was the writing process?  I mean is it sort of similar to your approach in acting that you’ve discussed about fine attention to detail?  Or did you find yourself banging your head as often, a lot of writers, myself included, banging their head against the brick wall thinking, I don’t know what to write, you know?

Trevor Eve: 00:42:56
No.  I must say I loved the process and thought that I'd found my new career.  I loved it.  I would, I found that I work best for four hours in the morning.  I found four hours of writing pretty exhausting.  And I don’t... I didn’t benefit from carrying it all afternoon.  That four hours’ focussed was good.  I...so I thought I found a new career until my agent sent it out to about 14 publishers who said pretty much what you said. I've never read anything like this.  What genre is it?  And I thought, “Oh my god.  I thought I’d left that world of TV to go into this sort of free creative world of fiction where, you know, as, you know, that a novel is whatever you want it to be which is I don’t know Henry James or whoever said it was, you know, there are no limitations to the novel.  But yes, there are when it comes to getting a publisher because this isn’t crime.  It’s a bit of crime.  Is it existential?  Yes, existential.  So, there’s elements of Camus and then I realised I don’t think I found my new career here because it’s not got a commercial label that can be attached to it.  And then I realised that, you know, I've written another book or I'm 90% through my next book.  And I must say I got a little disheartened because, you know, Lomita for Ever did not reach an audience that counted.  It didn’t... I did a couple of book festivals and I got on the news and which I thought was quite an achievement to get on the BBC evening news having written a book.  And... but, you know, I didn’t sell a lot of copies.  And so, I thought, well, this second book I've written, people said it’s pretty dark, your book, Trevor.  I said, “Well, dark is okay, isn’t it?” I mean... the second book is darker.  So, I (Laughter) I mean the second book is, you know, where does that come from?  It starts off, it’s a five-year-old boy with polio in Hungary in 1956.  And he’s developing his life developing after that when he evacuates after the Russian... after the uprising and the Russian slaughter in Kaushal Square.  So, yeah, where does that come from?  I don’t know.  I don’t know.  But I do know that I really, really enjoy the process.  But I must say I'm a little... maybe I'm not, you know, an absolutely... why it’s not a career for -  I guess that you're meant to write, paint and do everything without approbation, aren’t you?  And, you know, Van Gogh being the classic example of someone who didn’t get reward in his lifetime but he was still a dedicated painter.  I’d like a bit of reward. (Laughter) So…. 

Neil Hancock: 00:46:23
I can never understand Trevor why people want to categorise into genres because to my mind, one of the things I've loved about your book was that I thought, right, I'm reading a revenge thriller here.  But then he meets Lomita and I'm thinking, no, this is turning into a romantic drama.  And then I thought, no, it’s turning into a revenge thriller again.  And that kind of added to the unpredictability of it.  And when you read a book, you don’t want to think about, oh, I know what’s coming next.  You want it to keep you guessing all the way through.

Trevor Eve: 00:46:56
Yeah.  But that’s you and me both you know.  That’s what I like, but I think in marketing terms, you're dealing with genres but then you're coming up against what my book could be categorised as literally fiction and then as someone pointed out, you're dealing with the big boys.  And you're not a big boy, Trevor. You know, you're dealing with... I mean people who I acknowledge as being, you know, transformative in the world of... Martin Amis and William Boyd and, you know, Le Carré.  I mean these... well, his genre, but the people...the literally fictions Sebastian Faulks, Ian McEwan.  I'm not, I can’t, I'm not in...They are the big boys.  You know, they are the big boys.  And I suppose because I've read them, I thought that a sort of rambling, exploring, unfolding narrative was okay.  But I don’t know, I don’t know. (Laughter) But you know I’ll do it.  I’ll finish my book and whether it’s published or not, I don’t know but I’ll finish it because I do enjoy the process.   

Neil Hancock: 00:48:11
Now, I always ask the question in my show but I think we’ve already gone into this so if we have, we can just glide over it.  But I always ask the question, what has been your greatest challenge in your life and/or your career?  But am I right in saying that you’ve already mentioned that and refer to what we’ve been speaking about earlier or is there something you feel that sums it up better than that I suppose?

Trevor Eve: 00:48:38
Well, overall, I just feel incredibly fortunate.  I mean I feel really fortunate to have had the career that I've had.  I have touched upon the challenges.  And I think what has happened in my career is when I started out, I thought that, you know, I could just go the whole way and be, you know, the biggest star the world had seen, probably like every actor starts out doing.  As I got older, I just think, for what I've got, I'm really lucky to have done what I've done, you know.  That’s kind of (Laughter) that’s kind of how I feel.  I feel immense gratitude because I look around and I see people and I go, wow, I couldn’t have done that or that’s really, that’s fantastic or I don’t look like that or look at the way he looks or look at the way she looks or look what they did there or how brilliant were they or whatever.  And then you think, it’s okay, you know. You’ve got through it.  You’ve not been found out.  And you've worked so far and you’ve done pretty well.  And I don’t say that in any false modesty terms because it’s easy to go, yes -  I don’t.  I think as I've got older, I think that I, I really do believe that.  I think, I see why there are people who hit the stratosphere, put it like that.  I see them and I think, yeah, I get that.  I get that.  I thought I had that but I didn’t.  I don’t actually have that but I get that.

Neil Hancock: 00:50:18
And what roles have you not played yet that you would love to play? 

Trevor Eve: 00:50:23
I've never had that, Neil.  I've never wanted to play anything.

Neil Hancock: 00:50:27
Oh, okay.

Trevor Eve:  00:50:28
In that respect, I'm the reluctant actor.  But I've never had a role where I think, “Oh, I’d love to give my Churchill or my, you know, Prospero or what.” No.  I'm pretty... I leave that in other people’s hands when they say, “Would you like to play..."Oh god they thought of me for that.”  “Do you think I could do that.” And they go, yeah.  Okay, that’s cool.  No, I don’t have, I'm not one of those... I have to say I'm not an actor that, you know, gets home in the evening and opens my complete works of William Shakespeare and reads out some speeches and go, “Oh.  Oh, I would love to play that to play that. To mouth those words on the boards.” No, that doesn’t happen. (Laughter) That’s not me.

Neil Hancock: 00:51:20
Equally, and you may have already touched upon this earlier, equally, are there any roles that you look back on and think, “Oh, I wish I'd done that” or I wish I'd gone with that but I turned it down or…?

Trevor Eve: 00:51:32
Yeah, I wish I'd done Coriolanus with David Thacker in the mid-‘90s I think it was.  I turned it down.  I think he was doing it at the RSC.  And I should have done it.  And I should have done, yeah, there’d been a few theatre plays...  I should have done Arcadia when Tom Stoppard said, “I’d like you to do my play. What do you think of it?  And I read it.” I said, “I don’t know really.  I think it was alright.” (Laughter) What the fuck am I doing?  You know I look back on that and think, “Well, you're just a fucking idiot.” I mean that was idiotic.  There are a few where I haven't done...Harold Pinter asked me three times to be in his plays.  And in the end, I turned him down and he said, “Could we meet for a drink? I can’t understand why you keep turning me down.” And so, I turned him down, I was not available two of the times.  One time, I just didn’t want to do the play. Mistake, you know.  Mistake, there are certain people you should work with and those are two, Harold Pinter, Tom Stoppard, yes, of course.  

Neil Hancock: 00:52:50
And with working such long hours as an actor and things like that, how have you managed, you’ve managed very well to balance family life with your career? 

Trevor Eve: 00:53:03
Well, the family life is everything.  And, you know, one's family... I couldn’t have done it without my family.  Because you say balance but even having my kids as hyper-critical as they might be at times about what I do and Sharon, you know, that’s what, that's kind of gives you the incentives and the support to carry on what you're doing.  I've not been one to make...You know, my relationships are mostly outside of my work.  I'm not a, you know, I'm not likely to go to the pub with a bunch of actors as my mates.  Often to my regret when I see people I'm working with and they go, “Oh, yeah, I shared a flat with so and so. We’re all going out for dinner and everything.”  I go out for dinner when I'm on location but you know in between times, I've never picked up really actor friends.  And I think that’s to do, that’s to do in a way with coming from the background that I came from, you know, my Welsh background which is one of coal miners.  My grandfather was a coal miner. And actually, a bare knuckle fighter illegally but... and my father’s side, very kind of, you know, you work for a living, that kind - I've always felt that I'm not really in a proper job, I suppose.  And that’s something that I, yeah.  I mean it’s slight disconnect, I think.

Neil Hancock: 00:54:52
Well, I suppose it’s about, I suppose it also protects you from comparing yourself to other people as well, doesn’t it to a degree by keeping some sense of detachment from the world and your own personal life.

Trevor Eve: 00:55:08
Yeah, except, I have to say, having just said what I've said I don’t know why I don’t have more actor friends because when I'm with actors, I do find them just the best people to be with. They're just, you know, usually hugely witty, great company, speak their minds.  I mean they're pretty great people, you know.  So, I don’t know why.  It’s probably because we’ve travelled a lot and because we’ve dedicated a lot of time to our kids so, you know, I'm not, yeah, I'm not a guy that goes out with the lads, I suppose.

Neil Hancock: 00:55:50
And this is the penultimate question, Trevor.  A question that interests me, are there any roles that you wouldn’t do on principle because it goes against what you believe?

Trevor Eve: 00:56:02
Well, we touched on the Hughie Green one earlier.  People, yeah, playing people, probably people who are, I don’t know, people who can be affected by what you do whose relatives are still around.  I don’t know whether we have, whether we should be inevitably rewriting their histories because rewritten they are, we don’t know what people say, said in detail to each other.  I don’t know.  I don’t know.  I don’t know.

Neil Hancock: 00:56:39
And finally, is there a question that you’ve always wanted to be asked but nobody’s ever asked you and if so, what would it be?

Trevor Eve: 00:56:48
(Laughter) Oh, heavens, Neil.  That is, that is obviously a very good question. (Laughter) Gosh.  I can’t.  I can’t honestly think.  I think what I would like to do is... but it’s not, it’s the answer that I can’t give.  But I would like to... I think our business is a really strange business.  And I think that actors suffer a lot of indignity.  And not just from the people that... I mean within their supposed group of supporters like, you know, agents and managers and PR.  I don’t... this isn’t a question I’d like to be asked.  But I kind of would like the dignity of the actor to be restored.  That’s what I would like.  Because when I became an actor, all I ever wanted on my passport which you don’t have to do anymore was, there used to be an occupation was actor because I thought it was just the world’s greatest profession.  And I think something’s happened to it in perception terms where it doesn’t seem to be... I mean maybe times have changed and it’s not of the same value that it once was.  I don’t know.  What do you feel?  Do you think that, do you think being an actor is quite the thing that it... I mean is it a good thing now?  

Neil Hancock: 00:58:35
Well, I think it’s as tough as it’s always been.  But I think and I think it’s competitive as well.  But I do think that it is important to have other strings to your bow within the arts to be able when you're not working to say, well, I'm working on a play or I'm trying to showcase my talent in a play that I've written.  Because I know that by writing it myself, I will be able to showcase my own strengths as an actor, I guess.  I think, so I think the more facets you can get under your belt, the better.

Trevor Eve: 00:59:16
Yeah, which is, that’s the way it goes now, it’s gone for all of us but it’s interesting because, you know, the old guys of... when they were around in the post-war ‘50s or ‘60s, early ‘70s, I mean they inevitably and invariably were just actors, weren’t they?  That was their, I suppose they weren’t, what am I talking about?  Olivier did everything and Gielgud and yeah.  Maybe I'm just talking bollocks which of course is what happens when you get to the end of an interview, Neil or a podcast. You just think, I’ve just talked a load of bollocks. (Laughter)

Neil Hancock: 00:59:58
No, you haven't.  Thank you, Trevor Eve for giving up your time.  I know you're incredibly busy.  But thank you so much for being a guest on my show. 

Trevor Eve: 01:00:08
Well, I just want to say, Neil.  Thank you for inviting me.  But also, thank you for really having, which is a rare thing in someone, an interviewer.  You really knew what you were talking about as regards me.  And that means that you spent a lot of time investigating and researching my work and for that, I can only extend a huge thank you and a great degree of appreciation.  It’s a tremendously respectful thing to have done for one.  Thank you.

Neil Hancock: 01:00:40
Thank you, Trevor.  Great stuff.  If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, please follow me on Twitter @NeilonWheelsPod or Instagram, The Neil on Wheels Podcast.  Until next time.