Episode 10: Neil sits down and is interviewed by...actor and writer Will Payne

Neil Hancock: 00:00:11
(Music) Hello, everyone.  I’m Neil on Wheels and this is my new podcast.  I can’t walk the walk but I can talk the talk.  I’m a wheelchair actor who wasn’t able to work during the pandemic but rather than sitting around doing nothing, I thought I’d sit around doing something.  In this series, I’ll be chatting to people in the theatre, TV and film industry about the challenges they’ve overcome in order to achieve great things in life.  In this episode I’ll be chatting to my good friend actor and writer Will Payne.  Will, hello.

Will Payne:  00:00:41
Hello.  How are you doing?

Neil Hancock:  00:00:43
Fine, thank you.  How are you?  How’s your day been?

Will Payne:  00:00:46
Yeah, not bad, not bad.  Beautiful sunny day, isn't, so.  Is it sunny there?

Neil Hancock:  00:00:49
It’s lovely and sunny here, yeah, absolutely.

Will Payne:  00:00:53
Yeah, can’t complain, can’t complain.

Neil Hancock:  00:00:54
It’s lovely to be able to chat with you this evening and just have a little chat.

Will Payne:  00:00:59
No, absolutely, I mean, this is a different...different episode for you really, isn’t it, because this is more about you.

Neil Hancock:  00:01:04
Now it’s your turn to put me in the hot seat.  (Laughter)

Will Payne:  00:01:09
Yeah.  Well, let’s hope I can do it justice.  Coz... you’re a professional at this point and I don’t know what I’m doing, but I’m sure it’ll be great.  (Laughter)  So, we’ve known each other for quite a long time now.  How long have we known each other for?

Neil Hancock:  00:01:25
Oh, we’ve known each other for….  I was working this out.  We were at RADA 2008, so that must be about….

Will Payne:  00:01:32
Nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two. Yeah, nearly 15 years.  Fifteen years.

Neil Hancock:  00:01:36
Nearly 15 years.  And when we were at RADA actually….  We were talking about this the other day, weren’t we, because we were saying that it was…  We didn't have that many classes together I don't think, did we?

Will Payne:  00:01:50
No.  I avoided you like the plague I think really when we were at RADA, but our souls collided later down the line.  It was meant to be.  So, why don’t you start by telling me how it was that you decided to get into acting in the first place?  Why did you…?  Why were you…?  Why did we meet at RADA?  Why did that occur?

Neil Hancock:  00:02:28
Well, I’d always loved films when I was younger.  They were a huge escapism for me.  I would watch all sorts of things.  Particularly... I remember watching Mary Poppins and being absolutely captivated by that film, you know, people flying and things.  And I particularly love Superman.  I know that we have a debate about this that you prefer Batman to Superman, (Will laughs over the top) but I loved Superman.  I just loved anyone who had the freedom to be able to do things and flying was a huge freedom and  I can remember thinking it “Oh, would be great to fly.”  And I remember on one occasion I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t fly upstairs and that other people could walk up and down it and I thought “Why can’t I walk up and down it?  Maybe I could fly.”  And, yeah, it was at that point that my parents told me that “It’s because you can’t walk, Neil,” and I thought….  Well, at the time I didn’t really know what that meant.  I probably got a bit upset, I can’t quite remember, but yeah.  And so, from that point my love of acting sort of began with films and I suppose I initially wanted to be a director.  I suppose at the time I probably didn’t know quite what a director was or what the job entailed, but I….

Will Payne:  00:03:43
So, you didn’t initially think “Oh, acting was the way forward”?  You wanted to tell the stories and write the stories or visualise the stories as opposed to being in it.

Neil Hancock:  00:03:55
Exactly.  And I suppose it was at a drama class really….  I did a drama class and I thought I quite like this acting and I thought God I quite enjoy this, but I wasn’t able to…  Well, there was a lot of resistance to me doing it for GCSE.  And I wasn’t able to do it for A level because the curriculum at the time was quite physical... physically demanding, so it was thought that it would be best for me to sit out the A level.  So, I basically went to a local stage school called Playbox Theatre.  And Playbox basically as I’ve mentioned in I think an earlier chat really taught me a lot about acting.  I mean, at Playbox you were basically doing professional shows to a paying audience but we were in the sense actors that weren’t trained.  And we weren’t being paid, but we were doing it for a professional audience.  So, we were learning a lot of techniques and standards that, you know, we had to reach a certain standard because people were paying to watch you perform.

Will Payne:  00:05:03
I just want to see if you can remember any of the shows that you did.

Neil Hancock:  00:05:06
I can.  We did a show called Believers, which was a piece of new writing by a playwright called Ron Hutchinson and that was….  Oh, that was a terrific show.  And we also did Don Quixote.  We did the Revengers Tragedy, Richard III, all sorts of….

Will Payne:  00:05:29
Quite an extensive mixed of things there.  So, what was your favourite one did you say?  What was the one that made you go “Oh, do you know what, I really do love this”?

Neil Hancock:  00:05:39
Well, it wasn’t necessarily the role I played in any of these particular productions, but it was being part of the company and being part of what I felt theatre was about which is not just being in productions but being part of a family really and exploring... working together for a common goal.  That’s what I liked.

Will Payne:  00:06:02
Collaborative.  Collaborative.  Do you think that…?  Do you think that that comes from…?  So, if you go back a bit further in your childhood, do you think that being part of that...a family or a company or whatever was something that you lacked maybe when you were younger?

Neil Hancock:  00:06:20
Well, I mean, I had my parents and my sister who were very supportive and….

Will Payne:  00:06:26
Of course, other than your family, obviously. I just mean so like when you’re at school.  Or did you feel that, you know, going into a drama workshop like that gave you the freedom to explore a bit more of who you were which maybe you didn’t have when you were at school?

Neil Hancock:  00:06:44
Most definitely.  I think….  I mean, you know this, mate.  When you’re with other actors and other creative people that kind of understand you it allows you to explore a lot more about who you are and be open to different possibilities.  And I suppose being at Playbox I was able to meet with different people that I hadn’t encountered before.  And they’d opened my eyes at how kind they all were.  You know, because being in a mainstream school….  I went to a mainstream school and sometimes it was...it was tough and….  But being at Playbox was the first time that I went somewhere and I felt I belonged there.

Will Payne:  00:07:32
And do you…?  And that’s….  So, you know, one of the reasons that you’re doing this podcast is to sort of like highlight; one,  obviously people in the industry that you’ve met over the years or that you know, but also to do with people with disabilities, so that obviously includes you.  So, when you were younger did you…?  Were you the only disabled person that you knew or that you were kind of around?

Neil Hancock:  00:07:55
Yeah.  Yes, I think I probably was.  In the school I was at I was one of the few if not the only wheelchair user and I can remember thinking…  And it seemed stupid at the time and very naïve, but I thought that I was the only person to undergo any challenge because I thought, you know, being in a wheelchair is pretty challenging enough.  And it wasn’t until I got older that I realised that we all have our own sets of challenges.  But at the time I can remember thinking “How am I going to surmount all this?”

Will Payne:  00:08:33
Yeah.  Well, no, of course.  I mean, you’re quite right there.  I think that we all….  I think everybody feels that way when they’re younger, don’t they?  They’re trying to overcome something or some sort of challenge that they perceived that they had.  But of course, yours was a physical challenge.  So, how long... how old do you think you were when you finally felt that you could be a bit more comfortable with who you were or who you are I should say?

Neil Hancock:  00:08:59
That’s a very good question.  I think it came when I began to realise my purpose which was I enjoyed being a creative person surrounded by creative people and likeminded people.  And they allowed me to see….  I remember in Playbox in particular the directors there were so good they said “We don’t want you to see your wheelchair, Neil, as a barrier.  You know, it’s an extension of yourself.  It's just your legs.  It’s your way of moving around, but it’s by no means a barrier.”  And that blew my mind at the time because I thought well, no, it’s not a barrier, it’s never been a barrier.  But to me when I was younger it did seem that way.  But as soon as I got to Playbox, soon as I got into the theatrical  or the arts as it were I realised that actually, you know, I can push myself and it’s not a barrier to me and I can be whoever I want to be and explore that.  And it was a wonderful way of doing so because wh-

Will Payne:  00:10:08
So, how old were you when you started Playbox?

Neil Hancock:  00:10:09
I was…  Oh, gosh, that was in 2001, so that would’ve been…  Oh, gosh.

Will Payne:  00:10:15
Okay.  It’s early teens, right?  That’s right, early teens?

Neil Hancock:  00:10:19
It was about mid to late teens I would say because I think I started there quite late.  In fact, I always said to them at the time I wish I’d started with you earlier, but that’s just the way life goes I guess.

Will Payne:  00:10:31
Yeah.  And it’s….  So, this was all in Stratford-upon-Avon as well, right, this Playbox Theatre?

Neil Hancock:  00:10:37
This was in Warwick.  Playbox Theatre in Warwick.

Will Payne:  00:10:40
Oh, it’s in Warwick.

Neil Hancock:  00:10:41
Which is close to Stratford, so yeah.

Will Payne:  00:10:43
Yeah.  So, then obviously from there you went to RADA.  And do you think that going to RADA just, you know?  Well, first of all when you were auditioning for RADA did you audition anywhere else?

Neil Hancock:  00:10:56
I auditioned at a few drama schools.  At the time I wasn’t sure which ones were accessible and which ones weren’t so I was sort of….  I played it very reticent to begin with.  But yes, I applied to a LAMDA, I applied to Central.  On one of the time….  On one of the years I applied….  I think I applied to Drama Centre.  Yes.  And although I wasn’t successful in getting on to the three year I….  When I got a... I remember going for the audition at on the foundation course and it was a day audition and I remember thinking “Ah, this audition was absolutely great.”   It was sort of group work… Well, you did it, but…  We both did it but not the same day and…

Will Payne:  00:11:47
I didn’t.  I didn’t do it at all actually.  I mean, I met you at the... on the three-year auditions.  I think it was the third round and I did….

Neil Hancock:  00:11:52
You did.  I remember, yeah.

Will Payne:   00:11:54
Yeah, but I didn’t audition for the foundation.  So...?  I did, but I didn’t do the same thing….  I didn’t go through the same process as you, so I didn’t have to do any of that.  So, yeah, I don’t know what….  What was that...what was that like then on that...?  Because….  So, you did all the three years….  And also, just to go back to what you just said there about….  Interesting point you made there about not knowing which drama schools were accessible or not.  See, I’m not even aware….  I don’t know anything about that.  So, what drama schools…?  Are there still drama schools to this day that are not accessible to people in wheelchairs?

Neil Hancock:  00:12:29
Well, I wouldn’t know that now.  But back then I can remember there...there... they were very accommodating and they would do their very level best to accommodate me for an audition.  But I can remember thinking there would be certainly some that I would avoid.  I remember someone saying to me that one drama school in particular was quite old and had a lot of stairs and I thought to myself….  They didn’t say not to do it, but I thought maybe I ought to avoid that one because, you know….  Not saying I wouldn’t have got in, but it would have it would have made it harder I think to have gone there.  You know, you want to go to a place where it’s easy to get around and it doesn’t cause you too many headaches I guess.

Will Payne:  00:13:15
Well, yeah.  I mean, RADA was good, wasn’t it, because it had all these lifts in it, so that was the obvious place to go.  (Laughter)  Yeah.   And so, tell me about how you enjoyed your time at RADA then.  Or did you enjoy your time at RADA?  I think I know the answer to this, but tell the listeners.  Did you enjoy your time?

Neil Hancock:  00:13:35
It was one of the best times of my life, mate.  As you quite rightly said you already know that.   I met some fantastic people yourself included.  But also, what they did there at the time was they tailored the training so it suited me as an individual.  So, for example, you know, if there was something that I couldn’t necessarily do they would adapt it so that I could do it in a way that didn’t affect everybody else.  And it really opened my eyes to the fact that if someone is open-minded enough you can sort of do anything really without it affecting too many people.   And I can remember actually a lot of the classes that I had it didn’t affect the class that much at all and I was able to integrate quite well.  But I think there were one or two occasions that a teacher said “Well, if you can’t do this just do that.”  And, you know, it was very much….  I can remember doing movement class in fact…  Do you remember movement with Katya Benjamin?

Will Payne:  00:14:34
Yes.

Neil Hancock:  00:14:35 
The wonderful Katya Benjamin.

Will Payne:  00:14:36
Yes, I do.  Yeah.

Neil Hancock:  00:14:37
And I remember being quite nervous because I thought to myself gosh,  movement it’s going to be all about moving around and I’m not going to be able to do this.  And little did I realise that actually Katya’s idea of movement was not necessarily about moving physically but how you position your body and the stillness of your body in order to create like a presence I suppose.  And I always remember she said to me “Neil, you need to learn how rather than talking in your head voice you need to learn how to talk through your chest voice or indeed your bottom.”  And she said “You need to learn how to talk to her through your bottom” which is something that friends like yourself have been saying that I do for years, you know.

Will Payne:  00:15:24
(Laughter)  Yeah, 100%.

Neil Hancock:  00:15:27
(Laughter)

Will Payne:  00:15:29
Because remember we did all those….  I’m not sure if we were ever in any movement classes together, but I remember we had to do the animal exercises.  What was your animal?  Do you remember?

Neil Hancock:  00:15:39
Oh, I can’t remember whether this was the animal I ended up with, but I can remember doing a squirrel.

Will Payne:  00:15:45
Okay.  Yeah, I can see that.  I can actually I see that.  (Laughter) I can imagine you doing that.

Neil Hancock:  00:15:52
And before you ask it was a grey squirrel, because I can remember there were a lot of grey squirrels around, you know, a park where I went through once.  And I can remember sort of studying….  You know, we went to YouTube as well and finding out what sort of traits and what they would do and things like that and I thought it was absolutely fascinating.  And I knew that I wouldn’t be able to sort of do anything with kind of like on the floor or anything like that.  But I was trying to work out the different positions or the different movements a squirrel had and translating that with those movements with my wheelchair really and how my wheelchair moved or could move in line with that to make it as convincing as possible.  It was good fun, wasn’t it?  What was your animal?

Will Payne:  00:16:46
I can’t actually remember.  I can remember... I think….  Because we all had to do pack animals as well, didn’t we, and I think that I was….  I think I was a meerkat which is a really fun one to do,

Neil Hancock: 00:16:59
Yeah.

Will Payne: 00:16:59 
but I can’t… Yeah, that’s a great pack animal to do, but I can’t remember...I can't remember what my personal one was.  But I remember we all got to go to the zoo and stuff, didn’t we?  We had like a free pass to the zoo for the year to go and look at animals and things like that? I...I think I’ve only used it once, but…  Yeah, no, I can’t remember.  But interesting, one of the things that you were saying there about how, you know, you felt generally when you went into any...a lot of those classes that you didn’t feel hindered in any way you could still join in.  So, one of the other things... one of the other classes obviously we had to do was dance classes.  How did you find those?

Neil Hancock:  00:17:36
Oh, dance classes.  Well, you see my dad had always done ballroom dancing when he was young and it always disappointed me that I thought “I’ll never going to be able to do ballroom dances like he used to do and….   But it looks so much fun.  So, when….  Because we did show dance

Will Payne: 00:17:57
Yeah.
 
Neil Hancock: 00:17:58
and social dance and I thought to myself “How on earth am I going to do this?”  And, yeah.  So, when I went in the great Darren Royston who again is one of those people who can take something and adapt it more or less on a sixpence, you know, it doesn’t need much time at all.  And he said “What can we do here?”  And he said “Right, we’ll do this and we’ll do this and we’ll do this.”  And I remember in social dance in particular, we did the waltz and we were all dancing round in a circle.  Do you remember this?

Will Payne:  00:18:33
Yes, I do remember that one.  Yeah.  I enjoyed that one.  That was fun.

Neil Hancock:  00:18:36
And I always remember mate that we’d be going round... dancing round in a circle and Darren would always say “But, Neil, you have to do an extra move, because if you don’t the person behind you's going to bump into your chair.” 

Will Payne: 00:18:52 (Talking at the same time)
Yeah, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:18:52
So, there was always that little adaption that was made. 

Will Payne:  00:18:53
How did you do that?  I’m trying to remember.  How did you do that?  How did you do the waltz in your wheelchair going…?  Because, you know, you’re going around in a circle like that.  How did you do that?  I’m trying to…  That must have been quite manic on the old control panel on your wheelchair.

 Neil Hancock:  00:19:06
(Laughter)  Well, it was to begin with… But I remember I can’t....  It was like a box, wasn’t it?  It was like one, two, three….  I can’t remember the exact steps but I can remember Darren saying “Look, Neil, you need to do an extra step, because otherwise the whole lot’s going to stop, so...”  And it was really, really good.  And he adapted like the waltz I think it was, the Cha-Cha-Cha, which I can still remember it was one, two, tree, cha-cha-cha, two, three.

Will Payne:  00:19:41
Yeah.  How did you do the cha-cha-cha?  How did you do any of that?  I mean, it’s just brilliant that you were able to.  Because I would be worried about being your scene partner.  You crushing my feet (Laughter)  dance partner.

Neil Hancock:  00:19:54
I think I’ve run over your feet since more than on occasion.  But I remember the cha-cha-cha was... I had to go forward, one, two, three, and back, one, two, three.  And you just have to give it a little bit of attitude, a little bit of performance. So, it was one, two…

Will Payne: 00:20:12
Right, yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:20:13
So, it was one, two, three, cha-cha-cha.  And then we did the tango.  Now,  I can’t remember what I did for the tango now.

Will Payne:  00:20:21
That was hard.  Yeah, that was really hard.

Neil Hancock:  00:20:23
And then we did the jive which was great fun, great fun.

Will Payne:  00:20:28
Yeah, that was fun.  Yeah.  So, you told me the other day that you and Darren are now working together again on a dance workshop which is aimed specifically at wheelchair users is that right or people with disabilities?

Neil Hancock:  00:20:39
So, yes, that’s right.  So, I’m Disability Advisor for Non Such History and Dance which came about during lockdown.  In fact, when Darren approached me he said “Would you be disability advisor for my company?” and I said “Of course.”  And from that point we’ve…  I attended various meetings.  And we always had in our minds that we wanted to do a workshop that was around the idea of Shakespeare which I have a, you know, a great love for.  And also, the idea of people on wheels and also people who are not on wheels being able to dance to a Shakespeare play using various different kinds of dance.  So, the idea would be you wouldn’t just have wheelchair users but you’d have people maybe on skateboards, on different types of wheel type vehicles really.

Will Payne: 00:21:34
Oh I see

Neil Hancock: 00:21:35
And we’re still formulating quite how that’s going to transpire.  That’s what the workshop’s about really, that sort of like the first stage how we might work that out.  And the workshop is still very much in development.  We don’t quite know when it is at the moment but it’s very much in the planning stages.

Will Payne:  00:21:56
Sure, but that…. I mean, that’s….  You know, it’s is a good example of the kind of things that you’re trying, you know, since leaving RADA and whatnot.  It’s trying to show what you can do, you know, even with a disability or, you know, in a wheelchair or whatnot like what’s possible, so you're a good advocate for all of those things.

Neil Hancock:  00:22:18
I like to think so.  I don’t like to make it into a barrier.  I don’t like to make my disability into a thing, you know.  And I suppose there are times at which I’ve had to over the years learn that there are certain limitations to being in a wheelchair and that doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing.  I’m trying to think of a best way of explaining it.  It’s like for years I wanted to be this particular person that was in my head, but rather than being the person that’s in my head, embrace the person I actually am.  And so, these past sort of five, six years for me it’s been less….  The challenge for me has been less about being in a wheelchair and more about it accepting the fact that the person in my head isn’t necessarily the realistic version of myself.  The person I am that you wouldn’t necessarily initially want to embrace is the person you have to embrace because that’s who you are and that’s who people truly want to see.

Will Payne:  00:23:22
And what is that?  What was that image that was in your head that you always wanted to be?

Neil Hancock:  00:23:26
Well, I always imagined myself, you know, sort of being this...this actor that could play all these roles.   I mean, I always had the wheelchair in my head, but I had all these sorts of ideas in my mind that I play this and I play that and I do this and do that.  But actually, you realise that when you get older actually there are certain roles I will be able to play, but there are other roles that perhaps you need to accept the fact that in the situation that I’m in it probably wouldn’t be feasible to play.  So, you know, I’m never going to be an action hero and I’m never going to be able to sort of….  I’m not going to be the next Arnold Schwarzenegger or Harrison Ford or Liam Neeson in Taken or anything like that, but equally I can play other roles that are within the realms of my wheelchair, you know.  So, it doesn’t have to be a limitation to realise what you actually are capable of as opposed to what you actually would have rather been but that was an unrealistic idea of yourself.  You know what I’m trying to say?  I’m perhaps not explaining that in the way I would have hoped I could have explained it.

Will Payne:  00:24:43
No.  No, I think that makes perfect sense.  I mean, the way that I’m, you know, kind of formulating that in my head or when you’re just talking there is kind of in some ways that’s got nothing really to do with being in a wheelchair at all really.  You know, accepting limitations is something that everybody does really, isn’t it?  And kind of what you were just describing there about, you know, realising what you can do and what your strengths are and things like that, that’s….  In some ways, isn’t that…?  That’s basically just finding your unique selling point, you know.  And I think that is the thing about getting older, understanding that.

Neil Hancock:  00:25:17
It's just a shame it has to take so long to get there, doesn't it, mate.

Will Payne:  00:25:21
(Laughter)  Yes.  Yes, that’s true.  It’s very frustrating.  But when you find it, you know, it’s incredibly liberating and I think that’s exactly what you’re kind of discovering now.  I mean, so what have you…what have you?  I mean, again just for the listeners, what have you…?  Since you left RADA….  So, we've spoken a little bit about the dance workshop that you’re working on there with Darren.  But in terms of acting, what have you done over the years?  Because I know you’ve worked in like New York and places.  You worked around the world doing various things, so it’s all very exciting.  And that, you know, there’s lots of people out there that might not think that that’s a possibility for them if they’re in the same position as you.  But, you know, you’ve broken down that barrier.  So, yeah, what kind of things have you done?

Neil Hancock:  00:26:04
Well, I worked at the National Theatre of Oslo developing a project that actually unfortunately never transpired.  But in doing that I met some wonderful people that I’m still in contact with today.  And I also had a TV role on ITV called Prime Suspect 1973 where I played a character called Ashley, Ashley Brennan.  And that was a very interesting and exciting experience to have because I’d never done TV before and I thought “Oh, my gosh, I don’t know what to expect here.”  Because I’ve done a lot of theatre, you know, and you know what theatres like.  You rehearse a lot.  And then you prepare for opening night and a long run of shows.  And all of a sudden I was thinking…  I didn’t realise at the time how quick it all had to be.  And people kept saying to me it’s quick and I took that on board.  But when you actually do it and you realise you come with something and you realise “Okay, this is what I’m coming with.  This is what I’m doing.”  And then the director comes to you and says “Right.  I’d like you to maybe do it like this or do it like that.”  And you do it like that and then it’s onto the next thing and it’s very, very quick.  And it’s a completely different type of thing, isn’t it, really.

Will Payne:   00:27:24
It’s a different skill, isn’t it?

Neil Hancock:  00:27:25
Different skill, yeah.

Will Payne:  00:27:26
It’s much quicker, yeah, and not mu…  No rehearsal time really.  Straight to the point.  But, you know, I’m sure you did it in one take wonder Neil you, I’m sure.

Neil Hancock:  00:27:36
(Laughter)  Well, you’re vastly more experienced on TV than I am, mate.

Will Payne:  00:27:44
Well, maybe, but that... that was one of the creepiest roles I’ve ever seen you play, Neil, and you nailed that, so. So what else... Because you say you've mainly did a lots of theatre, so I’m sure…  Didn’t you tell me that you worked in New York?  You did something in New York, didn’t you, with a friend... a mutual friend of ours called Kezzy. Kezia, sorry.

Neil Hancock:  00:28:03
Oh, Kezia Burrows.  Yeah, but that wasn’t in New York.  That was at the Oval House Theatre in London, because we…  Basically, when we were developing this Peer Gynt project and I was due to play Peer Gynt, sadly as I say it never transpired, we did a series of workshops because it was a sort of collaborative effort with people from different countries at the time.  And I went to New York but not really to work over there it was merely to meet them and to explore certain things.  But the workshops that we did one was in London and the other was in Oslo.  And as I say it was lovely to explore because we were able to…  It was very much research and development in trying to figure out what type of version of Peer...the story of Peer Gynt we wanted to tell.  And so that was what the workshops were all about and obviously we worked with different actors when we were exploring that.  And at the Oval House Theatre that’s where I met Kezia and various other people.  But, yes, that was a great experience and it is….  I’m only sorry that it didn’t progress further.  But you know what these things are like.  This happens more often than not though, doesn’t it?  It’s….  You know, you developed something and sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t.  

Will Payne:  00:29:30
Yeah, I know.  Absolutely it’s the pain of the industry sometimes, isn’t it?  It’s all that excitement and then it gets whipped from underneath you.  So, if you...so looking back on everything that you’ve done over the years, is there anything…? What would you say that you really learnt now and what would you, you know, if you were to do anything again…?  Maybe you wouldn’t do anything again.  Maybe, you know, that you shouldn’t live with regret and I suppose….  But is there something you would might say to your younger self or that you might change?

Neil Hancock:  00:30:02
This is a very good question, because I’ve often thought about this.  I’m one of these people sometimes that beats themselves up over things that I could have done better earlier on and had I done that maybe life would've been different.  But, I mean, it’s through talking to people like yourself, mate, and other people that you actually realise that maybe fate had other plans, you know, to the point that you had those experiences to learn something not necessarily so that it would lead on to further success but maybe it kind of taught me the value of something that maybe I’ve got to be a bit kinder to myself.  You know, whenever I make a mistake I often beat myself up with a stick “Oh, Neil, you shouldn't have done that” or anything like that.  And I know a lot of other people probably do the same, I don’t know, but that’s what I do.  But I’ve always been one that wanted to be the best I could be.  And sometimes I think you’ve got to accept the fact that there is no such thing as perfection.  And I think for a long, long time I was trying to overcompensate for being in a wheelchair by thinking that I had to be the best.  And by trying to be the best I actually put so much pressure on myself that I ended up, you know, becoming tense with it.  And I think I’m only now realising that by merely just losing that and being comfortable in your own skin it becomes that much easier or not easier as such, but you begin to learn that you can work in a more relaxed way in getting inside someone else’s skin without getting so stressed about being the best.  I’m sorry if that’s a rambling answer, but I hope that makes sense.

Will Payne:  00:31:57
No, of course that makes perfect sense.  It sorts of leads on nicely really to, you know, talking about this podcast that yo- that you’re now creating now.  So, why...why have you decided to do this?  This is a new adventure  for you and what possessed you to do it?  What is your reasoning behind it all?

Neil Hancock:  00:32:19
Well, my reasoning was we’d obviously gone into lockdown and I thought… Right, I was working at the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust in Stratford-upon-Avon and I was an actor and what they call a Drama Education Assistant there which… Part of my job included performing Shakespeare on request to visitors as they came into the Birthplace in the Birthplace Garden.   And my other side was to run workshops for students ranging from Key Stage 2 up to A level.  And so, I…. When lockdown happened and I thought  “Well, what can I do with my time?”  And I’d always heard people talking about podcasts and I’d done voluntary community radio some years earlier.  And I thought “Well, could I not bring a bit of what I’ve learnt from that into podcasting?”  And I thought “But what can I do it about?”  Because, you know, you hear so many talk shows and things like that and I don’t just want to be another one that gets lost in the ether.  And I thought “Well, I’ve grown up with a disability.”  And as I’ve said earlier, you know, I always thought stupidly that I was the only one to undergo any type of challenge.  And it was then that I thought “Well, no I’ve….”  As I grew up I realised that it doesn’t matter who you are, it doesn’t matter whether you’re rich, poor or anything like that, everybody at some point in their lives has had a challenge they’ve had to overcome.  And I thought “Wouldn’t that be an interesting idea for a podcast to explore that?”  And so, that’s why in my show I don’t necessarily know what the answer to that question is going to be.  I like that because then I can be surprised by it.  So, I may have an idea, but by leaving it up to the guest to decide...  So, they may...they may decide for example that they may surprise me.  And then from that, from what they reveal about their own challenges I’m then able to say to them… You know, ask them questions that I never thought I’d ask, you know.  So, in all cycles from that one question “what is your greatest challenge?” and from that other questions transpire that I then ask then take the interview in maybe a completely different direction.

Will Payne:  00:34:51
And would you say that you’ve been surprised by some people’s answers?

Neil Hancock:  00:34:54
Yes, surprised in a great way.  Because I suppose when other people share their challenges with you it makes you feel less alone and I…  That is the fundamental reason I think for starting the podcast, because when we were all in lockdown we all felt very isolated.  And I wanted people to realise that, you know, everyone is experiencing their own sets of challenges and by everyone listening to other people’s hopefully they would feel less alone in dealing with theirs.

Will Payne:  00:35:31
So, do you feel like it’s helped you?

Neil Hancock:  00:35:33
It has helped me, because it certainly gave me something to focus on.  It certainly allowed me to see that everybody is dealing with one thing or another, but it also allowed me to talk with different types of people about their own experiences of life.  You see, I think in some respects it’s good to talk to people about their own experiences because it helps you put yours into perspective in a way that perhaps when you’re on your own and you have a tendency to overthink and, you know, all the things you do when you’re on your own by putting your attention outwards onto somebody else and finding out how they’re coping and what they’ve had to overcome,  It kind of as I say puts your issues into perspective.

Will Payne:  00:36:30
Yeah, very true, very true.  I mean, you’ve been interviewing a very eclectic group of people so I’m sure that they’ve all had some brilliant answers.  I look forward to being able to listen to them all.

Neil Hancock:  00:36:42
And what would you say, mate, your greatest challenge has been?

Will Payne:  00:36:47
My greatest challenge.  I…Well...I think in some ways my greatest challenge is probably very similar to what you were just describing which is being comfortable in your own skin.  I think… You know, I think for years, you know, starting off  in this career, because I’ve been doing this since I was like 19.  And I think early on you want…  You desperately want to fit in.  You want to be accepted and you want to, you know, impress people all the time and so you think that you have to do what exactly what they want.  But I actually think that’s quite dangerous really and you end up falling into the hole which I certainly did.  And you lose sight of who you are and what it is that you really want, because you end up….  You’re just a puppet really.  Yeah, you’re just constantly desperate to please.  So, I think that…  I think…  Yeah, I think the greatest challenge I’ve had really is….  And it’s probably happening as it was few years is, you know, learning to take a bit more control of my own life and be happy with that, not be so frightened of what people think and…  I don’t know. Yeah, I think that’s probably… I mean, I definitely have lots of challenges, but I think in terms of like a big scope sort of….  It’s more of a mental health thing really, which I have I know doubt a lot of actors and creatives or indeed anybody in any work will suffer from time to time.  So, yeah, that’s probably my greatest sort of challenge.

Neil Hancock:  00:38:28
And I think there comes a point as well in your life where you want to take on a certain element of control as well because you want to feel like you’re in the driving seat of something.  And I don’t mean that as a pun by the way in my situation, (Will laughs) 
but being in the driving seat of something becomes more important I think the older you get because you want to feel like you’re accomplishing something.  And the only way you can really do that is if you take the impetus to do it yourself.  And so, I suppose you got to find something that…  I mean, when I started this podcast I didn’t know whether I was going to be any good at it.  I just had faith that people thought, they you said… Including you by the way.  You said “Oh, I think you’d be great at it, Neil.”  But I didn’t know it was just quite a question of, you know, trying it and seeing what came out.  And all of a sudden I was interviewing these great people and I thought “Let’s see how these rolls.”  And throughout these episodes that people have heard I’m hoping that there’s a broad range of people…  I mean, I try to interview not just….  There are people that other people would have heard of.  There are also up-and-coming people that are doing fantastic things.  So, I wanted to give it a balance, you know, and hear from people as wide range as possible.  Obviously, it was a bit difficult because this is my first series.  I had to rely on friends of friends and things like that to help me and people who I knew.  But obviously if people like this series and I go to a second series I want to carry on that broad range of interviews with different types of people.

Will Payne:  00:40:13
Absolutely, Neil.  And you are by far and away one of the most well-connected people I know.  You know everyone.  Everyone loves you.  I don’t think you’ll have a problem getting more guests, everyone knows who you are.  We’d just have to walk along the street with you and someone will wave at you, and I'm like “How do you…?  What’s going on?”  (Laughter)  I have no doubt that you won’t have any problem at all getting all guests.

Neil Hancock:  00:40:37
But, you know, mate, despite all that, all I really want to do at the end of the day is... I have a small group of friends that I like hanging around with.  As much as it’s nice as you say…  You know, you talk about being well-connected.  Yes, it’s great, you know, and all that, but actually what really makes me happy I’ve got a small group of friends, you being one of them, and I just like meeting up with you, having a drink or two.  And that’s what makes me happy I’d say and speaking to people from different walks of life really.  And it doesn’t matter whether they’re in the arts or in any other profession. Finding out, you know, what people’s experiences are because we all have different experiences that inform the sort of choices we make.  And for me it's always interesting finding different people and learning about their different experiences.  And sometimes they’re going to be completely different to mine indeed probably in a lot of occasions, but that to me interests me.  And I think it’s why we’re actors really, isn’t it, because actors want to meet different types of people because invariably we’re going to come across different types of roles in which we play.  And if we’re all always restricting ourselves to, you know, the roles that we are comfortable in then, you know, we’re never going to grow.  And I think you’ve got to find ways to grow in any way you can.  I mean, it’s probably…  In some ways it’s difficult to grow sometimes because that involves certain experiences that…  For example, I haven’t been able to have without the help of my parents, but I’ve had other experiences that some people haven’t had.  It’s all about balance, but I just find it interesting to find out where people are coming from in their point of view.  And by learning about that hopefully it will make me a better actor.

Will Payne:  00:42:41
Yeah.  Well, no, absolutely.  I mean, I’ve always kind of thought that acting is a…  I mean, you were talking about it right at the beginning of this interview.  You were saying about how you love movies because it was like escapism.  Well, I kind of feel the same way about acting.  Like you can be all these different characters and you can express certain things that you might not be able to normally...to express in your day-to-day life.  And I think that that, you know, that helps, you know... So... as you were saying when you’re meeting new people from different backgrounds and whatever you get to kind of soak all of that up and explore something else.  So, is there any character that you’d really like to play?  Is there a dream role that’s within your means?  Because you were talking about that you want to stay….  You’re at a point now where you see what is possible.  So, is there a character that, you know, would... is definitely within your abilities to be able to do that?  Is there a character that you’re like “I’d love to play that”?

Neil Hancock:  00:43:34
Well, I would always love to play Richard III.  Whether I will or not remains to be seen, but I would love to play Richard III.  I would love to do…. And this is in an ideal world by the way, but I would love to do more television if I could.  But if that doesn’t happen it’s not the end of the world, you know.  I know it’s a cliché statement and I don’t really want to say it, but I’m trying to think of another statement to use rather than “as one door closes another opens” but it’s certainly true.  If opportunities close it doesn’t mean it’s the end, it just means it’s opening up other opportunities that you may not have even considered and that’s a good thing.  And I think we were talking about this the other day.  You know, we were saying that just merely not thinking too far ahead and just rolling with it a little bit more is probably the best way to go because out of that you may gain experiences that you’d never even imagine you’d ever have.

Will Payne: 00:44:37 (Says it at the same time)
Very true

Neil Hancock: 00:44:37
So, I think there’s something in that.

Will Payne:  00:44:40
Yeah, just staying in the present.  And, you know, what you’re doing now and with other endeavours that you’re doing you’re creating your own path and so you are in total control of that.  But that’s all about staying in the moment and just getting on with it.  Just going “This is what I want to do, this is what I’m going to do.  Whatever happens happens.”  And I think that you’re doing very well there.  One of the other things you’re doing is you’re doing a lot writing as well aren't you Neil.  I mean, so that’s another exciting thing that you’re pursuing and again that’s you creating your own work.

Neil Hancock:  00:45:17
And it’s also, I suppose this is a general note to people listening and also realising that if something doesn’t work out it doesn’t mean that I’m a failure, you know.  I think a lot of people think that way.  They have ambitions in life and sometimes those ambitions don't work out and they somehow think sometimes they’re a failure.  I know sometimes I’ve felt like that.  And the truth of the matter is it’s not about that really it’s about the journey of going through all that to get to somewhere better.

Will Payne:  00:45:50
Yeah, 100%.  Absolutely.  You’re always going to be bettering yourself.  I mean, you’re not in competition with anybody else.  It’s just you’re in a competition with yourself I suppose.

Neil Hancock:  00:46:01
Yeah.

Will Payne:  00:46:02
Never let your negative thoughts or anxieties take control.  Just always be happy with what you’ve got and keep pushing on.

Neil Hancock:  00:46:14
Absolutely.  Well, on that note, thank you, mate, for having a chat with me on I think the final episode of this podcast for this series.  I hope people have enjoyed what they’ve heard.  And if people would like to hear... any guests that they would like to have on for future series, please do let me know and I will endeavour to see if I can try and get them on.  But, yeah, it’s been a lovely experience to try this out and hopefully see what people’s reactions to it will be.

Will Payne:  00:46:47
I think they’d be fantastic, Neil.  I’m just putting my two cents in.

Neil Hancock:  00:46:50
Well, you’re slightly biased because you’re my mate, but, you know.  (Laughter)

Will Payne:  00:46:55
You have one listener.  (Laughter)  That’s all right.

Neil Hancock:  00:46:59
Well, thank you so much, mate, for chatting with me today and thank you very much for coming on the show.

Will Payne:  00:47:05
Not at all, mate.  Speak to you soon.

Neil Hancock:  00:47:07
Take care.

Will Payne:  00:47:08
Take care.  Lots of love, buddy.