Neil Hancock: 00:00:11
(Music) Hello, everyone.  I’m Neil on Wheels and this is my new podcast.  I can’t walk the walk but I can talk the talk.  I’m a wheelchair actor who wasn’t able to work during the pandemic but rather than sitting around doing nothing, I thought I’d sit around doing something.  In this series, I’ll be chatting to people in the theatre, TV and film industry about the challenges they’ve overcome in order to achieve great things in life.  For this episode, I have not one, but three guests joining me.  My first is writer, director, producer and actor Jack Eve.  My second is actor and producer Pippa Bennett Warner.  And my third is actor Oliver Johnstone.  They're all here today to chat about Jack's latest film, ‘Open’, a romantic comedy set on the golf course.  ‘Open’ is Jack's follow up film, having directed the comic whodunnit ‘Bees Make Honey’ in 2017, as well as other numerous short films.  And ‘Bees Make Honey’ is now available to watch on Prime Video.  All three of them have very kindly given up their time to speak to me today.  Jack, Pippa, Ollie, welcome.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:01:18
Thank you, Neil.  Hello.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:01:19
Thanks, Neil.

Jack Eve: 00:01:20
Neil, thank you very much.  Good to be here.  Thank you for having us, or for me.

Neil Hancock: 00:01:24
Now, we're here to talk about your new film, ‘Open’, Jack.  And I think the first thing that I think is important to ask is, what is ‘Open’ all about?

Jack Eve: 00:01:35
Well, I think you described it quite well.  I mean, the main thing is it's all set on a golf course, and it's essentially about an amateur golfer who has a dream to qualify for the Open Championship.  And he initially attempted to qualify with his brother, working with him as his caddy, and then they experience a trauma which results in the man taking some time away from the game.  And then in his latest attempt to qualify, which is roughly five years later, after the initial trauma, he meets this woman on the golf course who knows nothing about golf, but is also overcoming a trauma of her own. And they throughout the day and then, you know, the time that follows, they sort of create a really strong and important relationship for both of - with each other where they kind of overcome their traumas together.  And they use the game of golf as a way of kind of understanding and sort of easing into each other's company.  And Pippa plays the female, Ollie plays the brother.

Neil Hancock: 00:02:40
And where did the idea for it come from?

Jack Eve: 00:02:43
It's difficult to say.  I'm not really sure.  I love golf.  I've always played golf since I was eight years old, and I initially wanted to be a professional golf until I was about 16, but I figured that I wasn't good enough, tragically and -

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:03:00
He's very good, though, I have to say Neil he's very good, don’t hide your light, Jack.

Neil Hancock: 00:03:05
I don't doubt it.  Jack.  I don't doubt it. 

Jack Eve: 00:03:08
Well, you can judge for yourself whether I'm good, because all of the golf shots in the movie are really hit by me.  So, I'm sure there'll be some opinions that say I'm not very good.  So, but we'll find out in due course.

Neil Hancock: 00:03:21
And when it comes to writing, what is your process of writing?  Do you have an idea for the story before you even write a word on the page? Or do you just write anything that comes out in the hope that then you'll discover something from that a little nugget of something that will then expand the idea or show you the idea, as it were?

Jack Eve: 00: 03:46
Well, with ‘Open’, it was actually quite helpful because without sounding kind of... it's similar to the to like I guess, a painter having a canvas.  You know, with the canvas kind of dictates how big your painting is going to be and, you know, everything else, that kind of comes with the particular painting that you're going to go for.  So, with this one, I knew that I was going to do it on a golf course.  I knew that I wanted to keep it kind of reasonably small as far as characters are concerned.  And so, that was actually really helpful in kind of being able to, I guess, the idea and I wanted to base it on or I was very much inspired by the "Before Sunrise" trilogy that Richard Linklater made with Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy that was kind of basically about two people connecting and then essentially falling in love through conversation.  So, with those - with all those kinds of pieces of the puzzle, I then just sort of sat down and went about kind of creating ‘Open’ and then the characters and the story.  And so, it was quite helpful to have those kind of clear I guess the canvas was particularly helpful.

Neil Hancock: 00:04:52
But was the process of writing ‘Open’ different to how you wrote ‘Bees Make Honey’, for example?

Jack Eve: 00:04:57
Yeah, of course, because, you know, the thing about film making is that you learn every time you make one and you hope that I get to keep making more so that I can keep learning, because and you have to kind of, you know, it's difficult to go back and look at the films that you initially - that you made, you know, early on because you can see the lessons being played out in front of you.  So, yeah, of course, I mean ‘Bees Make Honey’ was very much a kind of, I guess, larger than life, slightly like over the top kind of story and language and characters.  Whereas ‘Open’ I really wanted to keep it personal and really truthful.  And I think Pippa and Ollie and I really worked on kind of keeping everything really genuine.  And, you know that all started from the idea of I wanted to make a golf movie where it was actually about... it was written and made by someone who knew and, you know, knew about golf because a lot of the sports movies that we see often have kind of slightly, you know, not realistic kind of depictions of the sport.  And so, the whole kind of genuine approach was... began with actually the golf shots being hit by me and went right through to until, you know, through to the relationships and just keeping it all really intimate.

Neil Hancock: 00:06:24
And how long does it take you to write a script?

Jack Eve: 00:06:27
I mean, it's different every time.  With this one, it was reasonably quick to get the idea down, but then, like anything, you know, you get it down and then you're making changes.  So, I mean, the way that a lot of the people who I admire and, you know, you read about how they - what their process is like in making films, you generally make three different films.  The one that you write, the one that you shoot, and the one that you edit.  And right up until the end of the edit, you're essentially rewriting the script because you're taking lines that maybe don't work.  You're taking chunks of scenes that don't work, and you're rearranging them.  So, I guess the script writing on final draft took, you know, about a week, and then it was over then to coming kind of three, four months of before we shot it was ever evolving.  Pippa and I did a lot of work together on, you know, on our two characters relationships, and then Ollie and I did the same.  So, it was really just a case of, you know, just having the basic foundation and then letting it grow.  And the collaboration always I mean, even on the day of shooting, with everyone involved, when the DP is there and people have different ideas, the weather dictates things.  You just - we had some rain, for example, in one of the scenes, which changes the script.  And you have to kind of... that's part of the fun, I think, of making films is you have to kind of think on your feet.

Neil Hancock: 00:07:46
Yes.  Because what I loved about the film was it felt very... the conversations felt - didn't feel like you were listening to something that had been scripted.  It felt very spontaneous and improvisational.  Was that part of the process?

Jack Eve: 00:08:04
Well, so, I'm sure will... but I'm really lucky to have been able to work with Pippa and Ollie because it came about because Ollie and I were in the same year at drama school, and Pippa was... a year above us Pippa?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:08:19
Yeah.  The year above yep.

Jack Eve: 00:08:20
Yeah.  So, we and this was at RADA.  So, all had a really good understanding and shorthand of... with each other.  And so, and obviously, they're seriously good actors, and it was my first foray into acting for quite some time.  So, I really just - I kind of deferred to Pippa and Ollie on the days when we were, you know, when we're shooting our scenes.  And yeah, it was I mean it's not really much acting because Pippa is so good, that I just kind of just looked at her and it was the old classic thing of like reacting to what she was doing.  And it's the same with Ollie.  You know, we played brothers, and indeed, at RADA, Ollie and I would often play brothers in kind of duologues and scenes within the academy so...

Oliver Johnstone: 00:09:06
Because no one else wanted to work with us.

Jack Eve: 00:09:07
Yeah.  It was really just a case of leaning on each other and just letting each other kind of inform each other, really and it was I mean that was the most special thing, I think, about it from being in... as far as being in front of the camera was concerned.

Neil Hancock: 00:09:27
And Pippa and Ollie, how did you first become involved in this film? I mean, Jack said he spoke to you both about it, but how did you first get involved in it?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:09:39
Ollie, do you want to go first?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:09:40
No.  You go first Pippa.  I need to try and remember.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:09:42
Okay.  So, Jack and I, you know, so, I was the year above the guys, and I think that, you know, we were sort of mates  but not - I was in my third year when oh, no, I was in the year above.  But you didn't - I wasn't a ton of like inter year mixing in our year, I didn't think, anyway, the boys might have different ideas.  But, so, I knew, obviously, of them both, but I hadn't really ever really had a full-on conversation with Jack, I don't think.

Jack Eve: 00:10:11
No.  We exchanged zero words.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:10:13
Zero words.

Jack Eve: 0:10:14
Within the Gower Street walls.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:10:16
I was always quite intimidated of your year.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:10:19
Yeah.  Yeah.  Really (overlapping conversation).

Oliver Johnstone: 00:10:21
Because any year above, you know –

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:10:23
Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:10:24
- that old traditional kind of, oh, dear, I can't speak to them.  Kind of.  Yeah.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:10:27
Yes.  Yes.  It does exactly.  And then Jack and I met sort of re-meet at a party, and he came over to me.

Jack Eve: 00:10:37
I know what's coming.  This is going to be...

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:10:40
I have to go...he was like, Pippa, it's Jack Eve.  And I was like, I know.  Hi.  Nice to see you.  And he was like, when we started talking about...we started talking about Mother Father Son and –

Jack Eve: 00:10:49 
Which I - I'd just been watching Mother Father Son.  It was at a time when it was coming out, I was really enjoying Mother Father Son, and there was still a couple of episodes to go.  So, I went over to Pippa and basically fanboyed her.  And I was like, Pippa, I love Mother Father Son.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:11:02
He's like, I'm not sleeping.  It's so intense.  And then he was like - and then that was it, wasn't it, Jack?

Jack Eve: 00:11:09 
Yup.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:11:09 
And then I think Jack flew into my DMs and was like, “Look, Pippa, I've got these scripts.  I've got this scripts that I'd really that I'm, you know, got this film that I want to make, and would you want to read it?” And I said, “Yeah, absolutely.” And I read it and fell in love with it.  And then I think we met up maybe two weeks later or a week later and went for a picnic in Hyde Park and talked about it.  And then I - and then it was a really quick turnaround, wasn't it, Jack? It was probably three weeks after that? Two weeks after that?

Jack Eve: 00:11:37 
Something like that.  I think maybe four weeks.  But, yeah, it was pretty quick.  Yeah.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:11:42 
And then we were making it, and it was such a lovely... we shot it in five days, I think.  Was that right? Five days?

Jack Eve: 00:11:50 
Yeah, yours and mine.  My bit we shot in a, yeah, you came on you arrived on Sunday.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:11:56
All of it.  Even Ollie's bits, too.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:11:57 
No.  Ours took the rest of the year.

Jack Eve: 00:11:59
Ollie's interview stuff we shot in separate... at a separate time.  So, it took an additional two days to shoot that.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:12:05
Oh.  Yes.  That's right.  But principally-

Oliver Johnstone: 00:12:07 
In October –

Jack Eve: 00:12:08 
Yeah.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:12:08
- that was what was quite crazy about it that it was that much later, but it kind of worked quite effectively, I thought.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:12:14
I like all that stuff.  I think it's really good.  So, yeah, that's how I got involved, Neil.

Neil Hancock: 00:12:19
And Ollie –

Oliver Johnstone: 00:12:20 
And I, Jack, over the years, Jack has sent me some of the scripts that he's written for just, you know, a friend's thoughts, and he did that with ‘Open’.  And there was the character of... I obviously, you know, was aware of the character of Frank, and after I've read it and I really liked it and gave Jack my feedback, he was like, “Well, you know, you want to play Frank, right?” And I was like, “Oh, wow.  I didn't really see that coming.” But it kind of made sense because we've known each other for a long time, and I know Jack's brother George well, and I know what Jack and George's relationship is like.  And so, yeah, sort of, in a way, I did feel kind of, yeah, we known each other for a while, and I kind of felt qualified to play Jack's brother.  And I think that was that was it.  And initially, I only had one sort of quite critical scene.  And then, well, I'll let Jack explain why he sort of needed he wanted to deepen the relationship between Steve and Frank.  And so, Jack called me up after filming, and after they Pippa and Jack had finished the bulk of filming, and we added to the brother’s relationship.

Jack Eve: 00:13:43
Yeah, exactly.  Basically, in the edit, and I suppose the test screenings that we did, the feedback that we got was really great across the board.  And then it was just also we'd love to see more of, like, a Frank, which is the character that I played called Steve.  And that Frank is Steve's brother, and that was obviously the guy that Ollie played.  So, I wrote some additional scenes for Ollie that he very kindly came and did.  And, yeah, it was really cool to be able to kind of add some finishing touches to the movie based on feedback that we'd already got from showing it to people.  So, it was a quite a privileged position to be in.  And something which actually, I think is I'd like to try and do that again, this sort of have the sort of ability to have hindsight.  It's really valuable because, you know, a lot of the filmmaking process is so intense in the filming and the kind of main production that to be able to look at, back and reflect and go, okay, we could do some more here or more there.  This was a prime example of that and something which a really valuable lesson learnt.  And of course, Ollie was super kind and came back and did it, and it was, yeah, it was really, really helpful.

Neil Hancock: 00:14:58
And we've explored the film making process of making the film.  I'm just interested to know, can you explain and because you're the producer as well, Pippa, of this film.  Can you explain both together the challenges that have arisen from making an independent film?

Jack Eve: 00:15:18 
Yeah, I mean, Pippa, jump in whenever you want, but the challenge lies in the description.  The challenge lies in your question, which is making an independent film.  Independent is a very it's, you know, you're - there's no one out there that's asked you to make this film.  There's no one who's necessarily expecting the film, you know, or particularly on a budget at this level.  There's no one who's necessarily kind of financed it to a degree where, you know, their kind of careers or their company depends on it.  So, just getting the most difficult thing and I say this for all the independent films that I've done.  And I've only ever done independent films is definitely getting it out there and, you know, finding a home for it.  Which is just difficult with a - to find an audience with a big studio movie let alone with a movie that you have to kind of really build the momentum for and find the audience and find the right people to release it.  And that's a real challenge.  And I don't think that's... it's annoying that it's a challenge, but I can't really think of a way around it.  But, yeah, that's for sure.  It's been something which I know, that Pippa and I have been working on since we kind of have entered into the final stages of post-production, just trying to find people to, you know, take the time to watch it and –

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:16:41 
But I just have to say that Jack is so brilliant.  I mean, this is the first time that I've produced anything and I've really learned a lot from Jack.  He's kind of fearless with his approach to producing, which is, I think is great, but so just echoing what he's saying about, you know, it is tricky.  But I just want to give a shout out to Jack because he's really, really good at his job.  And he's - I was so impressed that he was... literally wore every single hat and has continued to just be an absolute trooper.  And, yeah, I'm really proud of him.

Jack Eve: 00:17:10 
Well, the feeling is... I do... Pippa, you know how proud I am of you, but let's not make this into...I don't wanna go 'I'm so proud of you', but I am really proud of you.  And if I could, you know, express that with a hug, I would.  But the last lockdown and the... I just said alas I sound like Boris Johnson.  But alas, the lockdown and the podcast platform doesn't allow it.

Neil Hancock: 00:17:37 
And what I do - what I love about the film tremendously is that there is a sense of order, chaos, reorder, you know, in the sense that you got the order of the two brothers at the start and then through the course of the film, you then meet Naomi, and Naomi then becomes part of the reorder, where... doesn't she, as a result, without spoiling too much of the film.

Jack Eve: 00:18:02 
Yeah, I mean, the character of Naomi is, I mean Pippa.  She's super brave.  I mean, she's obviously overcome a trauma of her own, which has, you know, sort of driven her to be in this sort of retreat scenario where she can just sort of take a break from the demanding city life that she's been pursuing for, you know, more than a decade now.  And then, yeah, she kind of she jumps in right at the deep end with just kind of wanting to learn about this sport and wanting to just being open, which is, you know, really playing on the title.  She's super open.  And Pippa actually, with the script that we worked on about a week before going into production, going into shooting it, there was one line which I won't tell you what it is because it would kind of give it away, but there was one kind of speech that Pippa's character, Naomi has where she reveals essentially what her trauma was, you know, what happened to her.  And I initially had written it so that it that appeared, you know, sort of let's say that the conversation was ten pages.  I'd originally written it that she says what it was two pages in.  And then Pippa just one day, very casually, was like, I think that she should say that later.  I think it's too soon for her to kind of, you know, be that open.  And so, we moved it, you know, later on, I think, maybe to page five or six or something, not literally, but around there.  And that, I think, really made their relationship kind of boom because it just - it was nice that she held it.  It was just a really great note from Pippa is I guess, what I'm trying to say.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:19:47 
I love that there's so much trust between the characters as well.  And, you know, I guess with openness, openness comes this trust.  But they both kind of just jump in, don't they? And it's really lovely that I mean just speaking from Naomi, that she's so closed off until she meets Steve and he manages to bring out this openness in her and she manages to sort of find her voice again through meeting him.  It's really lovely.

Jack Eve: 00:20:11 
Yeah.  For sure.  I already I mean know that I made the things.  I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit biased, but I really like the two characters kind of arc... their relationship.  I think if I wasn't involved in it and I watched this, I think I like to think I'd be I'm probably sounding very biased, but I like to think that I would like it as much because I think they've gone a really sweet little journey, which is really nice, you know, from where they are from the beginning to where they are at the end.  I think it's quite a nice little kind of, you know, arc of their relationship.

Neil Hancock: 00:20:45 
I want to go back a little bit now to when you all first discovered acting.  And when did you first realize, all three of you, that you had the acting bug?

Jack Eve: 00:20:56
Pippa, you take that one.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:21:00 
Well, mine definitely when I was a little girl and my sister and I went to...to start with, it wasn't it was kind of a mix.  It was mixed but then the boys left at nine or something, which I can't remember.  And my sister was playing Oliver in the school production of Oliver.  And I, you know, my sister sort of, you know, my closest, dearest, best friend was completely obsessed with her.  And I remember just being like, oh, my God, you know, my sister's so cool.  She's singing, she's dancing, she's acting, she's like this amazing person.  And that made me want to follow suit.  That classic thing of wanting to do what your older sibling does, and yes, that was the main thing, was seeing my sister playing Oliver in essentially all girl school production of Oliver, and I haven't looked back since Neil, so=

Neil Hancock: 00:21:49 
And Ollie?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:21:50  
Mine can be related to my sisters as well, actually.  They're older than me, seven and nine years older than me.  So, when I was younger, they used to take a lot of joy in dressing me up as stuff.  Elton John was a weird one.  And, yeah, maybe it was something to do with that.  I always like to sort of the, yeah, I don't remember a kind of decision of thinking, I really want to be an actor now.  I just, like, pretending to do a lot of... to, you know, all the different characters, you know, James Bond and Batman and then Captain Hook and all that kind of stuff.  So, yeah, I don't ever remember there being a specific decision.

Neil Hancock: 00:22:36 
And Jack?

Jack Eve: 00:22:37 
And say that was such enthusiasm Neil. And Jack. 

Neil Hancock: 00:22:42
And Jack.

Jack Eve: 00:22:44 
Thank you.  And Jack.  Yeah.  I was like, I came, I mean, all my bloody family are actors so I -

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:22:49 
You grew up in the game.

Jack Eve: 00:22:51
Yeah, as Pippa likes to say, I grew up in the game.  So, yeah, my mum is an actor, my dad is an actor and my sister is an actor.  Actually, I think what they prefer to be called is, my dad is an actor, my mom is an actress and my sister is an actress.  Against all odds, they prefer to be called actress.  So, yeah, so, I grew up with acting everywhere, literally everywhere.  And I always had a dream to kind of work behind the camera.  And then I was very shy and I used to play a lot of sport.  That was kind of my thing.  I didn't really do any school plays like Pippa and Ollie and... not at all, actually.  But then when I kind of got 20 21, I just thought I'd give it a go.  And I went initially did the RADA summer school, which was really great.  I highly recommend it if anyone is thinking about, you know, wanting to act, or even just someone who's not necessarily wanting to act, just sort of wanting to kind of gain confidence in sort of a public, you know, domain.  And, yeah, I did that and then I auditioned for RADA and then I got in.  And so, you know, that was - that's how I came about.

Neil Hancock: 00:24:08 
And how did school play a part in your love of drama?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:24:12 
I can take - I'll take you this one, I had really good drama teachers.  I was just fortunate to have both, yeah, my primary school and then secondary school.  Very kind of passionate teacher, inspirational teachers, who actually, the plays that they chose for the school to do were pretty challenging and progressive.  I remember we did The Crucible by Arthur Miller, which was quite heavy, and Oedipus, and One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.  So, it was material that...

Jack Eve: 00:24:48 
Didn't you - didn't you do Spring Awakening as well?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:24:51 
No.  We didn't.  I don't remember doing “Spring Awakening”.  I did “Spring Awakening” after RADA.

Jack Eve: 00:24:56 
Oh, yeah, of course you did that as profe -, yeah.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:24:59 
And, yeah, it was these teachers that kind of just kept pushing us as a class or as a group, and me in particular as, you know, amongst other, you know, other people who they kind of felt, yeah, you could make a go of this.  And I and other people in my year responded to it in kind.  And I'm not the only actor from my year at secondary school.  There were quite a few that came out because I guess because of his name was Mr.  Waller at secondary school, and he was just a brilliant, brilliant teacher.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:25:35 
I had a similar thing to Ollie.  I had an amazing drama teacher called Miss Maycock, Lucy Maycock, and she was a RADA graduate, actually, and she was the one that convinced me to apply.  And she kind of was so instrumental in my, you know, the auditions and the audition pieces and things, but that she, yeah, she really kind of helped me because I sung first.  Singing is what I really enjoyed doing first of all.  And then with Lucy, I kind of found straight acting and just realized that I preferred doing that to singing.  Something about...I think Ollie touched on it earlier.  You know, something about pretending to be somebody else is just really fun.  And, you know, you can kind of, you know, singing, you can act your way through a song, of course, but there's something quite exposing about singing, I think.  But something with acting, you get to kind of get to hide, you know, be somebody else.  So, I would, yeah, similar thing to Ollie.  It was my - I had a really great, really, really great drama teacher.  Yeah.

Jack Eve: 00:26:36 
I don't - I'm not even sure if the drama teachers knew my name.  I didn't indeed know their name.  So, I think it's a completely different route to Ollie and Pippa.  I was - when everyone else is in the theatre  I was probably out playing some football or something in the mud.  So, yeah, I'm sure my drama teachers were great, I just didn't - I didn't get to experience it.

Neil Hancock: 00:26:59
So, at what point did all three of you decide, right, I'm going to become a professional actor?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:07
Well, I acted a little bit as a child, actually I should probably say-

Jack Eve: 00:27:10 
You were in "The Lion King", Pippa.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:11 
Yeah.

Jack Eve: 00:27:11
How long are you going to wait until you play that card?

Oliver Johnstone:
You're a child star, Pippa.

Jack Eve:
You're a child star.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:27:19 
(Overlapping Conversation)...the most successful musical in London.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:22 
No.  I probably should say -

Jack Eve: 00:27:23
Weren't you original cast or something?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:25 
I was original cast.  Yeah.

Jack Eve: 00:27:26 
I mean come on, that's like a big deal.  I can't believe it's been this long.  We're 25 minutes in and you just drop that in casually.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:27:33 
Just happened organically.

Neil Hancock: 00:27:37
Pippa, I believe you played Nala in “The Lion King” when you were 11, is that correct?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:43 
That's right.  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:27:46
And how did that come about?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:27:47
So, I was at school and a friend's mum said to my mum, they're doing ‘Open’ auditions for ‘The Lion King’.  “Would Pippa be interested in going?” And my mum was like, “Yeah, maybe.  Yeah.” So, she asked me.  And I was like, “Yeah, absolutely.” And my parents drove me down to the Lyceum one day and I auditioned and then kind of three months and twelve auditions later, I got the job.  And it was -

Oliver Johnstone: 00:28:11
(Overlapping Conversation) Wow.
 
Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:28:12
...it's one of those things that the thing about being a child was so protected by your reasons.  I have no, of course, I knew that it was, you know, a musical, it was coming from America, and it was Lion King, it was Broadway and all of that stuff, but you kind of don't...  I said, this is someone recently.  I was like, weirdly at that age of the stage is just a stage because I'd done a ‘Panther Mamma Oxford Playhouse’ beforehand and played, you know, third Fairy from the right or whatever, but and then going to the Lyceum, which, you know, is a bigger space.  It's a West End theatre.  A stage is just a stage when you're that young.  So, do you know what I mean, I wasn't hugely nervous or anything.  You just kind of -

Oliver Johnstone: 00:28:47
No fear.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:28:49 
- you know, fear.  Yeah.  Fearless.

Jack Eve: 00:28:51 
So, did you sing, like, live in the production?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:28:54 
I did, yeah.

Jack Eve: 00:28:55 
Wow.  That's pretty impressive.  Were you miked up or just straight up singing?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:29:01 
No.  We were miked up.  Yeah.

Jack Eve: 00:29:03 
Cool.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:29:04 
Miked up.  So, yes, I said, yeah.  To answer your question, I'm not sure how old I was when I decided maybe when I was actually maybe when I was leaving school.  And then I did I actually took a year out before I went to RADA because I ended up getting a job at the National doing a kind of opera.  So, probably that that was probably when I thought that I might be able to do it professionally.

Jack Eve: 00:29:28
Pippa's had a career of like a sort of a dame who's like 85 years old. 

Oliver Johnstone: 00:29:33
(Overlapping Conversation) Before she even went to RADA.

Jack Eve: 00:29:35
We're talking to Dame Pippa Bennett Warner here.  This is absolutely.  Yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:29:41 
I'm interested because where were you when you were all told you got into RADA? And how did it feel?

Jack Eve: 00:29:47 
I will take that question first, because I was naked.  No.  I actually, so, I knew that the phone call was coming like around, like, the few days, you know, because it was like they tell you yes or no around like a certain period.  And so, whenever I had a shower, I always put my phone like where I could see it in the bathroom, and I saw my phone ringing.  And I can't remember if it was, you know, no caller ID or whatever, but I jumped out the shower and took the call.  And that's how I was naked.  And, yeah, I was obviously super happy.  Super happy.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:30:27 
You couldn't have put a towel on anything?

Jack Eve: 00:30:29 
I didn't have time.  There was so much going on.  I think I was very mid shampoo or something, and my hands were all, you know, slippy - Yeah.  I just grabbed my phone and it was back in the day when I think it was the iPhone 4 or something.  So, you know, when it wasn't quite good, like when you swipe across with wet hands, it didn't really work.  And so, I was there trying to swipe across and drying my hand on a towel nearby and everything, yeah but.  So, that's what happened with me.  And I obviously was really excited.  And then I think it was around April, I can't remember.  It's end of April, you find out or something.  I can't remember.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:31:07 
Gosh, I'm trying to remember when I - well, I had it twice, I think, because I basically auditioned the first year and got the place and then did the job, and then I had to basically sort of deferred my entry, but I had to do the fourth round again, so I can't remember the second time where I was-

Oliver Johnstone: 00:31:26 
I didn't know you were allowed to do that.  I didn't know you could defer entry -

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:31:29 
Well, I don't, well -

Oliver Johnstone: 00:31:30
- or with a risk of having to go in with next year's round.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:31:35 
Exactly.

Jack Eve: 00:31:35 
It's a bit harsh if you got in and you have to defer for professional reasons, you could just -

Oliver Johnstone: 00:31:40 
I wanted to defer.  It wasn't really an option because I was like, I wasn't aware that you could go into the fourth round.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:31:52
Well, I think.  Yeah.  I'm not sure if you can.  I don't quite know how I managed to swing -
Oliver Johnstone: 00:31:58 
You're like, "I'm a dame."

Jack Eve: 00:32:02 
Cut.  Cut.  Cut.  Cut.  Cut.  Pippa.  Pippa.  You're going to get yourself in trouble here.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:32:08 
No.  No, but the first time I remember, I was in my sister's flat in Camden on Pratt Street, because she was at university in UCL, you know, being very grown up with her own flat, and the phone rang and I think I was still in bed, I was fully clothed, Jack, and got the phone call and was just like, "This is really cool, thank you." That was it.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:32:30 
I remember I was in my friend's garden and we were quite drunk and I saw the phone ring.  I didn't realize that they were going to call you.  I thought you'd get a letter.  And when I saw that it was a thing, I left it.  And then I listened to the phone call and it was like, this is the principal calling from RADA and I thought, this is them letting me down nicely.  This is them going, you know, "We like you, but no, thanks." But then I listened to the voicemail and it was nice news.

Jack Eve: 00:32:56 
Neil, obviously, but hold on, hold on.  Neil, we met at RADA.  You went to RADA.  So, how did you find out that we got into RADA?

Neil Hancock: 00:33:03 
Well, I found out because I went on the foundation course and I got a phone call.  I auditioned on the same day that... I found out, on the same day I auditioned.

Jack Eve: 00:33:15
Oh, wow.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:33:15
(Overlapping Conversation) Oh wow.

Neil Hancock: 00:33:15 
So, I come to London.  I auditioned and I took the train home.  I can remember, sorry.  I took the car home because my dad was driving me and I got back to Stratford.  As soon as I got back to Stratford, I had a call saying, "Neil, you've got into RADA."

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:33:32 
Oh, wow.

Jack Eve: 00:33:33 
Excellent.  You didn't have to wait the bloody nightmare wait that we're all subjected to.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:33:39 
Yes, exactly quite.

Neil Hancock: 00:33:41 
And in terms of ‘Open’ because that's why we're here.  I just wanted to ask how you, Pippa and Ollie and indeed, Jack, because this was your - this was your first time in front of the camera playing the lead role.  How do you approach the roles that you play?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:34:00 
Gosh.  You guys want to go first?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:34:03 
How I approach role Frank for ‘Open’ or roles in general?

Neil Hancock: 00:34:09 
Roles in general, but and does it differ depending on what role you're doing? Or do you use the same approach for any role that you come across?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:34:19 
No, I think that's something that you pick up.  I can't remember whether it was something I was aware of at RADA.  I think it probably was that for every new role you're going to use a different process.  And some roles require tons of work and some roles actually you're better off not overcooking it beforehand, I think.  And in the case of Frank, I think, as I said before, because I knew George, Jack's brother, not that I ever had any intention of playing George, and also Jack and I were such good friends, we got a lot for free.  There wasn't a great deal of... sort of relationship, even though we worked on the relationship, the very specific relationship in terms of the actual acting with Jack, you know, it was pretty - it came naturally.  And so, in preparation, Frank has a medical issue that I did some research into.  And Frank is Steve's caddie and I have never been on a golf course before had to research what a caddie did with Jack's help and the relationship that a caddie has with the golfer.  And so, that was - that research before and then just sort of you see what comes out in the day.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:35:45 
With me, when I read something, I tend to know pretty quickly what I want to do with her, with, you know, whoever she is.  And most of the time, I go with gut instinct and try not to play the same kind of part immediately after one another, if that makes any sense.  And I just kind of mix it up.  I mean, with this, I was actually really panicked.  I only revealed this to Jack maybe last year.  And I was really worried that I wasn't going to be able to learn all the lines in time because... just because of my schedule in 2019 or whatever.  So, I was kind of panicking about that.  And I kind of then because I didn't feel like time was on my side, I kind of had to make a choice and sort of stick with it.  And Naomi is not a million miles away from me anyway.  But the good thing about the script and the good thing about other scripts as well that we work on is that most of the stuff that you need to build the character is in the script.  And with this, I had to...I  basically at points...it was on the pillow next to me because I had to - I was so worried about the lines and you know, and because there were so many lines and because I wanted to make sure that I was serving the text as much as possible and it didn't just feel like a line test.  Do you know what I mean when I say that? Like I had to make sure that the lines and also because there was a rhythm to it and the scenes were dialogues.  Am I making any sense? But you know what I'm trying to say, it's like that thing of like, for me, most of the character comes from the material, and then if you're not totally together with the material and you don't have the ability to kind of chuck it around, then I really struggle.  So, for me, with this particular piece, it was about getting the lines down and then Jack and I had a kind of nice natural chemistry and that was sort of 55% of it, I think.  Don't you think, Jack?

Jack Eve: 00:37:52
Absolutely, yeah.  I mean, it was obviously really important.  The film is kind of going to be made or broken based on the kind of the spark that the characters that Steve and Naomi have, you know, together.  And yeah, I think I really felt comfortable acting with Pippa and obviously with Ollie as well.  Pippa and I  the two characters were the ones where the kind of spark had to happen.  And, yes, it was great.  She's really bloody good.  And so, it was just like every day was just like a real privilege.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:38:25
So are you.

Jack Eve: 00:38:26
Well, thank you.  As I said earlier, it's just the reacting thing with you both made my job a lot easier.  But yeah.  Neil, I basically, obviously, I wrote this thing, so it's a little bit unfair because kind of I guess I kind of steered it slightly in a direction where I felt comfortable and I was very aware of having multiple hats on, although we had a fantastic crew who are all unbelievably capable and, you know, BAFTA winners and stuff, they know what they're doing.  So, it kind of was a well-oiled ship in that respect.  But I knew that I still had to play - write a character that was like, you know, not something which would require me to go and, you know, completely transform, I guess to a kind of a level that would make it difficult to be consistent.  And just quickly also, I think my approach to acting, because, again, I don't want to like growing up with actors.  I think a lot of actors think that the character and indeed, they work with the character kind of existing outside of them, which is perfectly great.  But for me, having grown up with actors, I've always and watching them, you know, do stage and shows or whatever when I was a kid, I've always been able to recognize the different qualities that, you know, my dad or my mom or my sister has within themselves and that they've applied to the character that they're playing.  So, I've always been kind of under the impression that you kind of take a little part of yourself that works with the character and sort of turn that up and maybe turn other parts down according to what the character that you're playing, you know, requires.

Neil Hancock: 00:40:13
Exactly.  And from my own part, when I watched the film, for me, everyone there had a purpose, you know, and what I loved about is that the relationship between Steve and Naomi starts off, you know, they're having sort of the witty chat between them, but slowly, over the course of time, as they begin to get to know one another, they begin to open up.  So, the trauma they both faced in their life begins to unravel and they begin to open up, which gives a whole new message to the film.  ‘Open’, not just being set on the golf course.

Jack Eve: 00:40:53 
Yeah, exactly.  The title "Open" relates, of course, to the tournament that they all are essentially, at one point, attempting to be part of.  But it also relates to, you know, how we have to be open as individuals with each other to form a relationship and to essentially fall in love, I guess, which is kind of what the movie is about.  It's about, you know, overcoming traumas of which the Frank character is the embodiment of that.  And then it's also about, you know, creating, falling in love, which is what Steve and Naomi ultimately do.  And yes, so it's about being open with your weaknesses and your strengths with each other, so that you can, you know, I guess it's the old classic, you've got to be vulnerable to, you know, when you're vulnerable you can... I'm a single man at the moment, but I guess at moments of being in relationships, you've got to be vulnerable, haven't you? Because that's kind of, you know, what it's all about.

Neil Hancock: 00:41:48 
So, you've all worked with some great people.  Pippa, you've worked with Derek Jacobi in King Lear and Richard Gere in Mother, Father, Son and Samantha Morton and Lesley Manville in Harlots.  And Ollie, you've worked with Antony Sher and David Troughton and Sally Field and Bill Pullman.  What lessons, what have you learnt working with these actors that you brought into 'Open'?

Pippa Bennet Warner: 00:42:15
Ollie?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:42:16 
I'm going to need a second to think about that.  ‘Open’.  It's tricky because ‘Open’, the guys that you've mentioned, Neil, I worked with them in the theatre.  And so, I wouldn't - I mean working, staring in Sally Field's eyes every night was an experience that I'll never forget because she was so ridiculously good every night, so close up and so kind of there and present.  And it just served as a reminder that that is all you really need to be.  Just be there, be as present as you possibly can.  And I can't quite put into words how much of a master she is in it, and she just leaves everything on the stage.  And so, I guess that was something that I really - I sort of couldn't wait to get on stage in order to be doing that with her, because yeah, as I said, it served as a constant reminder of how that's what you need to do.  And so, of course, I then would have taken it into ‘Open’ because you take it into any kind of acting you do.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:43:34 
For me, I'd probably say that I think I touched on this earlier, that I was worried that I wasn't going to be able to learn the lines and worried that I wasn't going to be able to kind of deliver any kind of a performance that Jack might be able to use in the film.  And I remember, I worked with Bryan Cranston a few years ago, and he said, "Any opportunity you get to work, you just work, you know.  You just keep your head down and you just work." At one point, I was really like, "I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do it.  I might have to pull out." And then I remembered that, and I was like, "You're just going to do it.  You're going to keep your head down and you're going to do it, and you'll be fine." And it was fine in the end, but there was a real panic because also I didn't want to let anybody down and, you know, anybody being Jack.  And so, I think probably that and every opportunity you get to work, you just work.  You just do it.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:44:25
That's good.  I like that.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:44:26 
Good, isn't it?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:44:27 
Yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:44:28 
I think that's great advice.  Great advice.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:44:31 
Me, too.

Neil Hancock: 00:44:33 
Now, Jack, your other films in the past have been the comic whodunnit, that is ‘Bees Make Honey’ and the drama ‘Death of the Farmer’.  How have your films evolved from when you first started and how have you grown as a director as a result?

Jack Eve: 00:44:49 
I think the weird thing about making films is that it's kind of dictated by not all, but a lot of it is dictated by how much money you have to make the film.  So, a lot of my early films were, they were kind of no money things.  And so, it was everyone, really I mean, I would call up local universities and see if anyone doing the film courses there wanted to come and, you know, get their hands dirty.  And they were all incredibly great and enthusiastic.  And so, it was really a case of just sort of, you know, every all hands-on deck.  And then ‘Bees Make Honey’ was the first time - I made a short film called ‘Lithgow Saint’ with my sister Alice, and then a really great actor called Jason Isaacs, who I mean, has done an unbelievable amount of fantastic work, not in the least 'Harry Potter', where he plays - did he play Malfoy or Malfoy's dad?

Oliver Johnstone: 00:45:45 
Malfoy's dad.  He's also a really, really good Captain Hook in a not great 'Peter Pan'.

Jack Eve: 00:45:49 
Yeah, he is.  Yeah.  So, I got to work with him and that was great.  And then again, I made that for no money.  But when you see that short film, you can kind of see that it's slightly stylized.  And so, we embraced that we had no money, and we did a kind of, like, blacked out audience presence that you couldn't see but you could only hear.  And we got these kinds of cool red chairs that kind of, you know, looked interesting.  And then "Bees Make Honey" was the first time I raised the money for that over about six months.  It was a completely wild world into understanding how to raise money for a film that I entered into.  And I managed to find six investors who I owe a lot to because they kind of took a bet on me.  And it really allowed me the chance to not only make a film, but of course, to keep learning lessons.  And I think the main thing that I learned from "Bees Make Honey" was just how very good... obviously, I've been aware of how good actors are, having been fortunate enough to, you know, have them as family, but also as really close friends and Pippa and Ollie, but also as going to drama school and being surrounded by them so I understand how good they are.  But then with "Bees Make Honey", what I learned was how good the HODs are.  Like your production designers and your director of photography and your costume designers and your hair and makeup designers.  I mean, you could just go on.  And the gaffers.  I mean, these people are really, really good at their jobs.  And so, I think just learning how to collaborate has been the most important lessons that I've learned.  But not in the sense that I wasn't collaborating before.  It's just that I didn't know what they could do because I didn't have the money to provide them with a platform to do that job.  And so, with "Open", although we made it with only six people on set at any given time, it was like the perfect COVID production.  But we shot it before COVID, so it was like, it was really annoying.  But yeah, we literally made it with six people, and it was - but because these were people who I'd all worked with before, every single one of them, I knew exactly how good they were.  And so, the trust was absolute.  And it was just the case of, you know, I knew kind of that the golf course would provide an interesting kind of set for which the action can happen.  And then, yeah, from Richard Stoddard, the DP, to Charlotte Hayward, to Danny Phelps, I mean, the list goes on.  It was just a case of going, alright, I know what you need now to do your job.  Here it is.  And although we made "Open" for not any money at all, it was very, very, very low budget feature film.  I kind of knew where that money needed to go a bit more.  So, it's a really weird job making films because it's super creative, but it's also about being kind of fiscally responsible as well, and understanding where to place the money to get maximum effect and where to place resources, you know.  Just like the most important thing you can do on a film set is provide good food, you know.  Like on my first few things I did, I didn't know.  You don't even think about it.  But, you know, all that kind of stuff, I really enjoy that and also just understanding and appreciating the value of post-production.  I mean, I've been fortunate enough to work with Adam Gough, so I think you've done a podcast with already, Neil.  Correct? 

Neil Hancock: 00:49:25 
Indeed, yes.

Jack Eve: 00:49:26 
Yeah.  I mean, he's the man.  You know, BAFTA nominated editor. Alfonso Cuaron.  He edited ‘Roma’, and, you know, he's really, really excellent.  So, yeah, just learning his whole abilities with post production.  He's not just an amazing editor, he also is like a master of postproduction in general.  He understands where to focus energy, where to focus time.  And, yeah, that's all just been super exciting.  And I really hope that, you know, I can kind of get the chance to keep working with these people because it's really the best thing I've been exposed to in my life.  Absolutely.  They're just unbelievably good at their job.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:50:11
Jack, I have to say, I've always been quite impressed and surprised that your communication on a film set is very kind of economical and clear.  Yeah, you run a film set very well.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:50:26
Agreed.

Jack Eve: 00:50:27 
I thank you very much.  That's very kind of you both to say.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:50:30 
And so, when you then have to jump from being writer to - and director to then, you know, doing your golf shots and stuff, it's, you know, "Orson Wells, eat your heart out."

Jack Eve: 00:50:43 
I don't think so, but yeah, yeah.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:50:45
Orson Wells wouldn't be able to hit those holes in one.

Jack Eve: 00:50:47 
Yes, exactly.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:50:51 
He's a seriously good golfer. We're serious aren't we Ollie?  He's really good.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:50:55 
No, I'm genuinely serious.  You're like -

Jack Eve: 00:50:58 
I've never been particularly - I remember when I was 13, my sister, who's four years older than me, took over the responsibility to plan my birthday party.  And she invited all of her friends and, you know, so it's like 17-year-old girls and then all of my friends, and we were all trying to be cool around everyone.  And I never told my friends that I played golf because it's got a stigma of not being a cool thing to do but, you know, I think it's cool.  And my sister bloody well went and arranged for the birthday cake to be a massive golf ball.  And so, when this golf ball came out, everyone was like, "Why is there a golf ball?" And I was like, "Well, I played golf." It was pretty funny.  But yeah, no, I do like golf.

Neil Hancock: 00:51:51 
I have to ask all three of you, though.  This is the sort of hallmark question in all the episodes of my show.  What has been the greatest challenge? What has been your greatest challenge either in life, your career, or both?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:52:05
Gosh.

Jack Eve: 00:52:07 
Who wants to go first?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:52:09 
I'm still thinking, so -

Jack Eve: 00:52:11
I would suggest that for me, and I mean, this being the apps... being the most vulnerable I can possibly be.  So, I hope it comes across with that kind of, you know, intimate level of trying to be kind of, you know, just honest.  It's definitely been me.  I've been my biggest challenge, you know.  Overcoming my insecurities, overcoming kind of my blocks, whether that be... however they may manifest, has really been quite a journey, and I think it will continue forever and I look forward to overcoming it.  But, you know, obviously there have been outside stuff, which has been extremely difficult.  But, you know, I think also for me, it's been quite difficult to kind of overcome the blocks that I put in front of myself.  So, it's just constantly trying to be like, no, you can do this or, you know, just trying to silence that negative thought process, silence that kind of doubt.  All that has been a real challenge.  And I'm sure we'll continue to be.  And I look forward to kind of constantly overcoming those kinds of hurdles because, you know, it's part of the challenge of being a creative person, is to sort of, you know, don't give in to the dark side, you know, try and use the force to overcome and, you know, pursue what it is that can make you be the best that you can be.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:53:44 
It's lovely, Jack.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:53:45 
I can really relate to what Jack saying there in terms of sort of insecurity and internal self-doubt being a challenge in itself and overcoming that.  And I would add to it from a career perspective, in terms of being an actor.  The fairly classic ones from, you know, being a young actor is making a living and finding a way to not take the rejection aspect of the job and the criticism aspect of the job personally and letting it go and sort of making your peace with it, I would say is one of the biggest challenges.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:54:31 
I think for me, definitely when I was coming out of drama school.  The landscape changed slightly and it's changing, which is great.  But there definitely had to be a certain amount of acceptance that I couldn't play certain roles because of the fact that I'm black and the way I looked and stuff.  And, you know, I got to play lovely roles on the radio because you couldn't see me, because I would never have got those parts if they were on the telly.  So, I think there was an acceptance that my trajectory or navigating my way through the industry would not be the same as my white peers.  That would be mine.  Yeah.

Neil Hancock: 00:55:10 
I just wanted to explore.  Now, Jack, unlike other films that you've directed, why did you choose this film to be in front of the camera as well as behind it?

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:55:22 
Good question.

Jack Eve: 00:55:23 
I think that kind of relates to what I said about, you know, earlier about the kind of me being my own worst enemy, is I think after RADA, it took me quite some time to kind of, you know, just sort of get to grips with what the hell is going on.  And I think, you know, I'm a bit older now, I like to think maybe a bit more mature.  And obviously having, you know, going to RADA is no joke.  Three years at a drama school with, you know, incredibly talented people everywhere is like a perfect pool of just being creative.  Although I've always wanted to make films, which is what I did immediately upon graduating, I pursued the kind of behind the camera work and, you know, did that.  I felt like I was mature enough and professional enough and knew what I was doing enough behind the camera so that I could essentially step in front of it and deliver a performance that was, you know, hopefully good and, you know, do all the jobs to a standard that was, you know, what I hope people appreciate it being, we'll see." But yeah, it was just the kind of, it was mainly just sort of just a feeling of knowing you just can't not do something.  And I just felt like it was that time.

Neil Hancock: 00:56:50 
And the most important question of all, Jack, when can we see "Open"? And I've already said that you can see ‘Bees Make Honey’ on Amazon Prime, but how can we see your other films like, ‘Death of a Farmer, for example?

Jack Eve: 00:57:05
So, ‘Bees Make Honey’ on his on Amazon Prime.  It is also on Hulu in North America.

Neil Hancock: 00:57:09 
Oh, okay.

Jack Eve: 00:57:10 
So, if you're in North America listener, you can watch it on Hulu, which is really great.  Hulu is a really cool, I don't know why it's not over here yet, but... here being UK.  But yes, you can watch it over there.  And then "Death of a Farmer", you know, I made that literally fresh out of drama school.  So, as I alluded to earlier, I didn't have, you know, much or didn't have any money and didn't really know what was going on, but I got some pretty good stuff out of it.  But again, I'd like to revisit that and I'm trying to arrange for a time and the resources to revisit that in post-production and just make a few tweaks so that I can release it properly, which as and when that happens, I will of course let the people know.  I guess social medias and whatnot are a good way of doing that, we'll see.  And then "Open".  So, the Open Championship is what the movie kind of centres around, which is the oldest golf tournament in the world and that's taking place this year, I think...  I think sometime in sort of middle of July, I think 10th of July begins, I think.  Maybe 11th, I think.  And so, we are talking, communicating with the powers that be that run that tournament, who are being very great.  And so, we're probably going to release it, or we will release it around that time.  So, what platform it will be on, we haven't yet decided and we haven't yet confirmed, but it will be released around July in the UK, potentially on a broadcast and then across the world.  Again, the wheels are in motion and I'm literally having daily conversations about that.  So, I'll let you know when.  I'll let you know on what but yeah, but it'll be around June, July this year.

Neil Hancock: 00:58:53 
Thank you all for taking part in the Neil on Wheels show.  Thank you for all giving up your time.

Pippa Bennett Warner: 00:58:57 
Thank you for having us, Neil.

Oliver Johnstone: 00:58:59 
Yeah.  Thank you, Neil.  You're welcome.  It was real pleasure.

Jack Eve: 00:59:03 
Yeah, absolute pleasure, Neil.  Thank you for taking the time to have us on.  And yeah, real pleasure.

Neil Hancock: 00:59:09 
(Music) Since this episode was recorded, ‘Open’ is also now available to watch on Prime Video.  If you enjoyed listening to this podcast, please follow me on Twitter @NeilOnWheelsPod and also on Instagram, the Neil On Wheels Podcast.  Until next time.